All Options Football Tournament edition 2010
Between the champions league final and the world cup in South Africa lies another major football event. This saturday, the 29th of May, the annual All Options Football Tournament will be held again.All Options definitely deserves a lot of brownie points for organizing this tournament again, in cooperation with Eurex, KBC Clearing and Bennington. For the third time it will be played outside on the football pitch of FC Abcoude, in teams consisting of seven players. Indoor soccer rules apply. No flying tackles allowed.
KBC Bank winner last edition
Participating teams
This year 18 teams will be participating:
| All Options | Caerus | |
| IMC | Eurex | |
| Petercam | Flow Traders | |
| ING | KBC Clearing | |
| Optiver | 323 Trading | |
| Better Options | Fortis Clearing | |
| Binck 1 | Market Wizards | |
| Scrocca | AFM | |
| KBC Bank | Binck 2 |
Please pay close attention to the game of 11:36 on field 1. Optiver is playing against Binck 1, and rumour has it Binck has sold this game. Anyway, there will be a photographer as usual and for the first time all matches will be filmed. Event starts early around 9:30, the final is expected around 16:30 and around the same time the barbecue will be set on fire.
Update : 323 wins tournament
After a long day of football, 323 trading emerged as the winner. The losing finalist was Caerus, who proved to be real Dutch chauvinists because they lost the final on penalties. ING and Better Options were knocked out in the semi finals.
My money is on the Germans, again.
It depends…
A few years ago I worked at a bank where we had a relay race between the departments, run 3km and use a 3 man team.
So, all the departments show up with their 3man teams…and one department fields 3 Ethiopians!!!
Since the standard team was either 3 fat traders or 3 fat back office workers no one stood a chance against the 3 Ethiopians
Typical time for a fat slob team was about 45-60 minutes!!! The 3 pros did it in less than 17min
My money is one whoever fields the “extra temporary staff team”
/Fat bastard
Just some additions to the story.
I am working on a list of past winners. Last year it was won by KBC Bank, but they beat Better Options in the final. Euronext did participate in 2007 and 2008 and won the 2007 match. Other winners were Optiver, Market Wizards and IMC. Fortis won once.
For the seventh year in a row it will be sunny again, which for Amsterdam is a pretty good streak. I am looking forward to a great event.
If there are traders out there that are interested but are not part of a team, you can always contact me to see if I can fit you in with a team. None of us are getting any younger and I know some teams would welcome a helping hand.
Contact details are on the site.
Thanks for posting and to all players; thanks for participating!
Regards
Ferry Boekholt
why dont vdm put a team in or eggberts new company… are they all still hiding….
median age in that company is 40, u wanna play with the grandpa types ?
egbert is going to play as a goal keeper in one of the teams!
all options will win
why?
Maybe because All Options has got only one team now, instead of two as usual
Congrats to 323 trading
Didnt know All Options have lost so many of employees .. from 2 team to 1 team to not even in semis ..
so 323 won the tournament
some succes in trading would be much more preferable
they are like 15 employees or something .. howz profitability in a place like that .. do they get past a million after the costs .. dont think Jan bos would be too eager to share any of it anyways ..
the smaller the company the less the costs…..
instead of having 5 managers and 5 traders,have 5 trader/managers! why do you need managers if all traders know what they are doing and what they are paying for!after a setup cost, it is only software , rent and little bit of overhead….
Ethoipians 3km in 17 minutes????Shabba mate, I could run myself alone 3km in less than 10 minutes…no doubt on that..and I havent been running in decades!
stanley is correct, alot of guys on here cant see the merit of working in a smaller outfit…of course all you guys do is come in sit down and trade all day but you pay alot of your pnl over for the bloated management structure you work beneath…the overhead at a smaller shop (< 10 traders) is no more than 100k per guy, larger shops and investment banks looking at at least 300-400k
Banks get a large chunk of P&L from making markets for Corporates, Institutional, Sovereign, Retail blah blah .. its whole lot different from dutch screen market maker model .. i agree with half million overhead on an average per trader in a big shop like optiver .. even though its much less in smaller shop, the big question still remains how is the final P&L split between the capital provider/shop owner and the revenue generator ..
in all options, allard gets everything, everyone else gets fuck all. maybe they should call it "fuck all options"!
@3:21
that's probably 9 km in total in 17 minutes. I can't, neither can you! 😉
no its not 3km each i suppose .. the world record for 3000m is 7:20 .. for three people its got to be atlest 22 min : )
depends on who is clocking….
Een particulier koopt op Euronext-Amsterdam 120 calls op 0.02 (bijv. via Binck)
investering: €240
transactiekstn: €348
de koers loopt op, hij besluit ze te verkopen op 0.08
opbrengst: €960 (120×0.08×100)
transactiekstn: €348
BrutoRendement: €720 (300%)
NettoRendement: € 24 ( 10%)
Totaal Transactiekosten: €696
Daar kan LegioLease nog een puntje aan zuigen aan zo'n kosten-structuur!
Wat zeurt die particulier nou, hij heeft toch geld verdiend? Kan hij met zijn hele gezin naar de McDonalds hoor!
its quite surprising retail flow still exists with that sort of cost structure, eh .. whats the guess on how much is direct retail flow vs Institutional/Banks/Asset Management flow on dutch single stocks and aex index options .. i am guessing the direct retail is much lesser and more thru indirect structured products/notes which these banks peddle around ..
ye buy an option for 0,02 and sell it for 0,08… nobody does that it's a stupid exemple.
If you trade EOE options, which most retail traders do if they trade options at all, 2 euro transaction cost on a 500 euro trade is nothing. Roundturn it's even less then the min. tick size!!
At US options you also pay around $1 or $2 but then spreads are much lower so if the min tick size finally gets down it will be much better for retail traders 🙂
what u are talking about is an option premium of 5 which is reasonable for front month AEX but how about AGN, the option premium would be lot smaller and so the idea of having fixed cost per option doesnt make sense .. the exchange cost should be variable or atleast some what related to underlying product being traded .. for same reason having same cost to trade an option with a multiplier of 100 vs multiplier 10 doesnt make sense ..
smaller tick sizes are always better for price discovery .. otherwise u see in market like 5c bid at 10c for 30,000 lots in AEX roll .. i mean if the tick size was bought down to 1c, then the market would be realistic like 6c at 8c and there could be some trading at 7c rather than trying to get it done through stupid broker in the current case .. i hope this is not lost on euronext as they are missing some nice fees on decent volumes ..
@11:14 >> 2 euro transaction cost on a 500 euro trade is nothing
The conclusion of my example is that you pay €348 transactioncost on a €480 optiontrade! ((240+720)/2))
@11:14 >> At US options you also pay around $1 or $2 but then spreads are much lower so if the min tick size finally gets down it will be much better for retail traders 🙂
Another example:
in AGN the market in the DEC10 5 Call is currently 0.48-0.50.
That's €48-€50 for 100 stocks underlying, a 4%-spread roundturn!
So you're saying US options are quoted tighter??
looking at spread by itself would not give the full picture .. 4% seems high .. but how much is that in Vol terms .. is it like 0.3 vol .. then i guess, that much spread is required for an options market maker .. in US, similar eg would be AIG but having much larger volumes so same would be quoted 49c at 50c with bigger volumes on bid/offer .. from what i believe US has got better deal in terms of tick size being 1c everywhere and the stocks are usual $10 – 50 .. here in pussy UK/europe u have all these sub 5 pound/euro stocks and the small tick size are then obv required .. citi is so often cited an eg of this phenomena .. 1bn daily stock volume on $4 stock makes no sense .. they should reverse split it like 10-1 ..
@ 10:04
my point is that nobody trades these cheap agn options for daytrading so transaction costs are less important then.
Indeed, US options are quoted much tighter. If we take a look at SPY options, we see a spread of 0,01 or a max of 0,02. Daily volumes are around 1m in options and around 150m in stock… This counts for many actively traded ETF's or stocks in the US.
If you daytrade in options you're a complete idiot to trade agn/ing/un/rdsa etc. Your transaction costs are way to high so only swingtrading or longer term investments are worth buying/selling these options. If I see how much EOE options are traded at our retail broker office compared to all stock options together the percentage is probablty around 80 – 20 % ! And even then it would be so much simplier to trade EOE future compared to the high spreaded options. And if we compare EOE futures with ESTX50/DAX futures you are still getting fucked by big spreads but for most retail that's a little bit to much to understand 😉
for this 80 – 20 %, do u mean retail people are 80% of all the options on these agn/ing/un/rdsa etc ? that seems really high but still believable ..
for this EOE future with big spreads, are u refering to AEX future .. i thought it was liquid enough ? nothing compared to SX5E or S&P .. but thats xpected given the natural interest, the flow and scope is quite limited .. a good parallel is S&P future vs Spider ETF .. same risk but the spread and volumes are lot favourable in ETF which is expected as the scope, flow and volumes are lot higher in the ETF than a future .. disclaimer: this is second hand info and i need to check if its actually the case using info on bbg ..
future is delta one yah, so u can get hurt pretty bad if u havent learned the rule no 1, that of hacking a loosing position.. with buying options u cud just loose ur premium at most, its really good tool, that of hacking losses, built-in for the amateurs .. of course being short an option can be catastrophic for a retail guy, so i am guessing the exchange or broker hacks a short position when the margin remaining are low in an account .. thats also not bad a risk management strategy, if somebody else can do the dirty job of hacking on ur behalf ; )
[…] the exchanges itself as well as regulators and all other groups trading derivatives or equities. Last year 18 teams participated and the title was won by 323 Trading, beating Caerus on penalties in the […]
@12:09 pm
please encourage your friends to start trading.
perhaps you could train them.
you don’t trade in the market unless there is sure shot opportunity, free money so to say .. otherwise you just sit pat or be a market maker making money off the retail guy using financial markets as a slot machine ..
and ya nobody trains anybody, you train yourself ..
“@12:09 pm
please encourage your friends to start trading.
perhaps you could train them.”
because @12:09 pm, guys like you pay the rest of us.
no actually you got the other way around, because of guys like you, i can use leverage when i want to make a unreal killing using far OTM options ..
Please keep doing exactly what you’re doing.
i am not doing anything for the moment .. nothing to do.. oil and precious metals are old bubble, defensives are already up .. markets are ticking down, fixed income direction is very unclear after may end .. dollar is also unclear .. i am out of ideas ..
well .. just keep paying the ask, and receiving the bid.
do that enough times and you’ll get rich.
picking the right direction is what it’s all about.
it’s the secret to wealth that “they” don’t want you to know…
there is no ‘they’ in the market, get over your conspiracy theories .. its you and the market .. simple and clear ..
for mm, bid offer is the first and foremost .. but for non mm the trend is the first and foremost .. trying to range trade/fade like mm would get you killed in the trend/letting losses run, so thats secondary .. buying high and selling higher or selling low and buying lower is still quite valid i think ..
yeah, just choose a direction and get rich. price is predictable. timing the market is everything. technical analysis works. trend trading, swing trading, shlong trading woo hoo. tell your friends……………..
‘yeah, just choose a direction and get rich’
yah thats it my friend .. thats it .. i am telling this to all my friends out here .. free money for all .. courtesy you ?
You want to trade your shlong?????
In so far as I’ll make you a price to speculate with.
Don’t worry, your superior directional skills are sure to make you back the spread.
Especially in the long term.
“yah thats it my friend .. thats it .. i am telling this to all my friends out here .. free money for all .. courtesy you ?”
great we can do some business finally, make me a market on 1Y Quanto TRS for USD 2mil KLCI, USD 10mil HSI and USD 10mil SSE, start date May 15, 2011 against 3mL funding, thanks,
‘You want to trade your shlong?????’
yah he is a gun market maker, in so far he can make markets on his shlong, your shlong or anybody’s shlong for that matter, he is just sucked so many, you cant beat him with your directional skills .. short or long.. term ..
my size is your size
just a sec ..
i;ll get a cheap quant from the thousands available
then I’ll use my skills to read a number to you
“great we can do some business finally, make me a market on 1Y Quanto TRS for USD 2mil KLCI, USD 10mil HSI and USD 10mil SSE, start date May 15, 2011 against 3mL funding, thanks,”
‘just a sec ..
i;ll get a cheap quant from the thousands available
then I’ll use my skills to read a number to you ‘
good, make sure it reaches to me on Monday, thanks,
‘my size is your size’
you work in tibra ?
can’t afford to ‘work in tibra’..
why not ?
‘good, make sure it reaches to me on Monday, thanks,’
did u get the price ?