All Options to teach option trading
120 comments / October 26, 2009
After years of begging by the rest of the market, the *ahem* prestigious firm All Options is about to give classes in option trading. Clean your agenda and cancel all appointments for November 10th and 20th, as the master classes will be free of charge and aimed at the very advanced option trader. Euronext and All Options will spend three hours on some Greek variables like vega, theta, gamma and delta. Meet your teacher in this student magazine (pdf, Dutch), seems a reasonable guy. Bad news however is the timing schedule, as the session runs from 10:00 to 13:00 on Beursplein 5. Hence, don’t count on post-class drinks.
You can apply for the free master class by mail. Question remains what a retail investor should do with extensive knowledge of the derivative pricing theory. Nothing really. Market makers compete for split cent margins with full delta hedge, retail folks would burn their money on transaction fees. Nevertheless, let’s not be too cynical and negative about Euronext/All Options joint efforts, although a true step would be to reduce trading fees for retail clients on Euronext. It’s a way better approach than handing over your customers to the sharks of Optiver. Did Binck’s head of retail Marcel Kalse quit his job after resisting the plan of selling their retail customer flow to Optiver?
@8:42, I bet you are French.
Is Ivo supposed to teach?
Hmm, last post didn't post – but the course is aimed at retail investors, not traders. It's for investors with some knowledge of options. Traders can come along – and if you learn something new.. – well, that'll probably be quite embarrassing for you…
Stop whining and get to work..
I heard the former Saen guy, Sieds van der Veen, will do the teaching. He seems to be a very good theoreticus.
thats brilliant. saen doing master classes in options theory. one of the funniest things i have heard all year!
The course will be given by Ivo Braakhuis, according to Euronext.
The kid in the middle, isn't that a young Matthew Hoyle?
I thought the one in the middle is Ralph van Pot
Which one is egbert….
Allard teaching options class? A master class in Hypo Real Estate would be worth going to..
i find that we should beable to post a comment by de poll, ok?
Please put Matthew Hoyle's ad a bit higher. People need him nowadays.
@ October 26, 2009 11:15 PM: very very good point.
Another very interesting trading master class can be Porche trading
Off topic, looks like IMC can't pay the bills – their website's been down for ages…
That's because Amsterdamtrader.com launched a bid on IMC's corporate website. They are negotiating..
Trader Jack for president!
can someone please tell me who is egbert…. and how i can get hold of him please
I can I just don't want to
Don't like IMCs new logo. looks like a makelaar's. Cheap.
what about all options – thats cheap
Is this logo introduced today? And a new website, too?
No, their site was down for a day yesterday – there new site and look was launched months ago
does egbert have a new website….
What happened to that comment about foreigners working at all options?
Now I still don't understand why Sieds van der Veen was licking van Put's arse?
I heard he escaped to Hong Kong (on the run)
I heard van Put lost money in fixed income a few years ago
Yes, and now his peanutfriends are looking for him in peanutland. But he's hiding on the backseat of his peanut-benz, his face hidden behind the FD which he is holding upside down.
I heard that so many blognerds placing so much bullshit on this blog
like yourself?!
can you please do an article on egbert next…. i am really interested to hear his story
@ Oct 30, 12:31:
You're obviously trying to stir things up – because Saen did have their own proprietary software, which was damn good, had traders who made profit every year except in 2008 and who consistenly outgunned all of the other MM and trading firms in Amsterdam (except for AO, IMC and Optiver of course) … so you don't know what you're talking about.
Nice bit of anonymous slander that.
Ah, there's so much crap on this blog you can't take it seriously.
@nov 2, 3.43: can you define 'outgunning'?
outperforming in the same game?
also, do you mean equal risk, higher netliq, or fewer people, more profit?
If Saen were that good, why did they sell to All Options for a peanut…. Exactly!!!!
What are some good mm firms in a'dam? 323, scrocca, tibra?
Does all option treat foreign employees bad? Becasue I saw one comment above says " some comment about the way all option treating foreigners is missing"
Not a good firm for foreigners to apply?
some information ?
Actually all employees are treated badly at All Options
The reason Saen Options was sold to All Option was that the major shareholder (90%) had most of his equity (cash) in Saen Options and wanted to reduce his risk (take money out). The only way to take money out would be to reduce positions/lay off employees or to sell the firm. Saen has alway been very good for their employees and therefor the decision was made to sell the firm without people getting layed off.
how about bull shit
All Options treats all their employees very well including foreign. It is a very good place to work. If you want to know how good then feel free to ask any employee and I'm sure they will tell you.
why doesnt all options have any good traders then….
how many failed trading groups has the ceo, allard jacobs, managed….
I'm sure Allard is a nice guy. I thought he was chairman and not ceo? I understand he paid everyone very well after Altana. I wish I had some of that Altana money
Is it possible to get rid of all the newbees asking where they should apply? It's really annoying to read/write every 20 comments which MM they should apply to…
Like a warning at the top of the page "if you want to know which MM you should join, go here (enter seperate blog/forum/whatever)"
It doesn't matter which MM you apply to – just focus on getting past the tests. If you're sensible you'll apply to them all.
I think Saen was sold because all of the traders are yes-knickers and up-lickers. And we all know that's not the way to make money. Since 2003 no more profits, and lots of costs. Best traders left the company. So this takeover was the best change for Meijer to get rid of all those yes-knickers and start all over again
Is Meijer still at All Options….
Ha, Ha!! Best traders left Saen Options, that's the joke of the century. Those clowns who left are now trading as mini locals doomed to trade together in the caves of the exchange building. Make sure to visit them, since these dinosaurs will be extinct soon. They were kicked out of Saen because they made a lot of bad long term trades and then were incredible greedy. They insisted to get paid on positions expiring 5 years from now!! (And we know what happened last year with those positions)
Yes but who is there at Saen…. Meijer who has not made money since the floor days (and lost a lot in Australia and last year, which is why they sold in desparation to All Options), and Ralph Van Put, who has never traded and just talks shit the whole time. Come on – they are not to be taken seriously!!!
I use to work at Saen and can confirm that all the good guys left (from Friesland). When anyone good leaves, Van Put tries to take them to court because he could not handle all the cream leaving. And for the record, he lost all the court trials! Not a nice person.
why take them to court….
does van Put still owns a couple of Porsches?
something which he always likes to mention to new job applicants.
Those were the days, all the Fries dudes talking Fries in the index crowd.
What about “The Saen board offered Allard a couple of drinks, stroke his ego, told some nice stories about the company”? After that, the megalomaniac couldn’t resist the temptation…
That’s why all All Options traders are now using software that a) is so slow that one pc is needed for each fund; and b) does not allow seniors to see what the other people in their desk are trading.
As for all good traders leaving All Options: rumor has it that All Options is so short in senior traders now that a couple of traders are now getting a crash course in order to become senior trader…
let them hire ex VDM then…
or maybe not, as they are also crap
The Saen software that All is using now
a) at least has a good hit ratio for the hidden eye (hitter)
b) is not multi-user but there are no seniors left to look what other people are doing anyways
c) beats Soldrij any day of the week
but how are they doing im Amsterdam(?) cause Sol3 is only competive on Eurex
I think most of these comments come from people outside the company.
But if there are people from All Options making these comments – then wow, you should really leave. You're not doing your team-mates any favours, you're messing up the company, and making it bad for yourself and everyone.
I'm really surprised. All Options is a good company – yes, we're not the size of Optiver yet. But it's a company for people who want a challenge, want to be a part of something that is growing, has ambition.
If you want a nice safe desk job then All Options is not the place for you. We want traders, not babies.
I think it's Saen guys who are not happy. But I agree with 12:56 – you don't make things better by complaining like this. That's not constructive.
I'm from Saen (now All Options) and it's not me!
Thank you for your reply 'Anonymous'… but we already knew it wasn't you 😉
the only things growing at All options are:
1. the losses
2. the overhead costs
3. the arrogance of the ignorant MT
haha
All Options cant be taken seriously – a joke created out of one trade, putting everything on red. they are not in the same league as imc, optiver and flow, or tibra. saen is a joke and so are all options. i am a big seller of the one year call in all options survival.
what does van put do now apart from talk about his porsches……..
what's your offer in that call??
sit on his fat arse eating chinese food
Actually so do I he is a good guy and has always been good to his employees ….
Not all people who run trading businesses can say that unfortunately
where is egbert…………
I heard he is in Australia with all the chicks on the beach
where should I apply for a trading job in Amsterdam then?? Is it true that Tibra pays 70k for fresh grads????
wegbert and nono are counting their money
quit asking for tips on where to apply for trading firms. that's not the topic of this forum.
Quit calling this a forum fool, this is supposed to be a comment possibility about an article that no one has discussed in 70 comments. If you want a forum create one, until that time let people write what they want. So I am a 6 ft (110 pound) blond looking for a trading desk in Amsterdam, where do I start?
@ NOVEMBER 5, 2009 4:51 PM
i suggest starting in HR
call egbert – you sound like his type of guy
apply to all options HR. I heard theyre really good.
all-options' Human Resources is really good!
the trading-department not.
All Options HR good ha ha ha
this is the funniest post in the whole site. just ask Frans Drion……..
you cant ask him because hes never there
What part in my comment made any of you think I was male?
Bump! hahahaha
@9:23 AM
The part where women have no place at a trading desk (except for underneath the desk to pleasure the trader). It's not a friendly environment to women, as I have just demonstrated.
I've managed to hold my own in London for 5 years now so I think I can take care of myself!
then why do you seek our advice? haven't you learnt anything during that time?
Five years in London? That makes you too old to sit underneath my desk.
Whahahaaa! LOL-ROFL
@10.41AM
This just shows what a complete wanker you are, for the last 5 years you have been "holding you own"….
me on the other hand for the last 7 years have had your mother "hold mine"
niveautje weer hor
come on guys, be nice, i think it takes a lot of courage for a woman to step up and work in the trading area with people like us. it's admirable and she deserves our respect.
In the function of HR
too many persons in HR already
all options has the biggest HR department in the industry.
and in the history of industry
goodmorning everybody,
all you other Anonymouses had a good weekend?!
a very good weekend
A busy weekend. I had an interview at 8:30 this morning and another interview at 14:30 from optiver this afternoon. Still wondering what is going on next.
i want to get an inetrview with egbert's new company. how do i go about doing that….. please help…
tell egbert you're very good at dividend tax arbitrage, three time zones and trading against yourself. incompetence will also get you far.
but i thought egbert had a good reputation… i want to work for the best
then look elsewhere…
I got the feedback from Optiver but I did not get through the HR interview. They said my motivation and technical competenties do not match their demand. Does any one know what kind of person do they really look for?
Indians
i'm sure optiver didn't appreciate tao's lack of discreetness either ('technical competenties' = posting anonymously)
@3:31
Non Resident Indians….If they start looking for Indians..their careers section is gonna get busted with billions of CVs !
It's quite disturbing that the London girl applied with "Hi, I'm a 6 ft 110 pounds blonde and want to start trading", rather than "Hi, I got 5 years experience at a desk in London and looking for a job".
What does that say about you, London girl?
It's not a girl already. Get over it. It's a bloke taking the piss.
I just want to hear more about behind the scenes at all options. Is it really a good place to work? Are all the things we read about true? Why such hatred?
the stories I'm hearing are the same as the stories I heard about VDM one year ago. I would definately apply with them
Why does everyone want to leave all options? It cannot be only the complaints their HR dept has too many people? No one leaves for that reason alone. Do they have trouble with their dividend trades like VDM?
Im thinking about accepting an offer @ AO… Their basic salary is on the cheap side compared to other MMs and Allard supposedly has a few claims going against him. Other than that I'm not sure how bad/well they perform. Hearing what is being said on this channel I better tink twice before saying yes to their offer…!
is instant messaging not a better solution for this thread.
then, you women, can gossip faster. or are you all gay homosexual fagets
It's no secret All Options won't be paying out any bonus this year.
I've heard from many people that AO has proposed an offer. Ask for legal advice, before signing anything.
Allied Advocaten
Lawyers want 500 EUR per hour. Gets expensive quick. They counting on the smaller people not being able to pay.
Legal advice is not always expensive. In some cases if you cannot afford a solicitor, the Council (The Raad voor Rechtsbijstand) will provide financial support.
@ Nov 19: 11:26
Not a secret, well apparently you know all the answers… even more than the management of all options and the employees.
Wow – you must be a board member to know this.
Gna just share my views from top to bottom as I see them.
I feel this is a good simply because it’s consistent with how the user is used to seeing the comment form and filling out information in general. Filling out the name and email wont take me much time, and if you really wanted to go ahead and type the comment first, you can do so, not really that big of a work around. I’m .
part time worker
btw it is not that hard to become a board member at AO.