Santorum doesn’t want Liquid cash
Time for some global news. Updates on local Amsterdam pubs are dull.
Rick Santorum is a Republican presidential candidate in the USA. Depending on the outcome of the primary election, he could eventually be running against Obama later this year. I’m used to skip intro and tune in when the real action starts in the States. However, this silly Santorum reached the Dutch press last week – something about the elderly murdered by numbers in this country. The story backfired at him.
His religious conservative views can be characterized as opposed to abortion, euthanasia and even against something as commonplace as birth control. Father of eight children himself. And supporting God, Jezus and families. In addition, he’s also terribly worried about gay sex. In short, not the kind of guy people in Amsterdam take very seriously.
Liquid Capital was founded in 2000 in London by Chris and Gregg Siepman. Having worked for several firms earlier (Saratoga, Paine Webber), they succeeded in building a worldwide market maker. Their positions now and then profit from the pain God causes by natural disasters. Last year the Japan tsunami landed nicely on their Japanese long vega positions.
Apart from the weekly church donations, it was time to thank the Lord in other ways. This is where Santorum enters the picture. The brothers decided to support the Christian Conservative by sending him $50.000. Alas, the American law prohibits the fundraising in politics by foreign individuals or companies. Thanks but no thanks, the fundraising committee returned the cash. Guess the American brothers will have to send the cash personally. Less tax friendly. But well timed natural disasters don’t come for free.
Subtle tag: god.
http://spreadingsantorum.com and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_%22santorum%22_neologism
what an assclown:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/rick-santorum-google-problem-on-the-daily-show-13571274
Dear Chris Siepman,
Please consider for a moment that you may be backing the wrong horse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cu2xaEd2cmU#t=06m30s
P.S : See the unrepentant sinner himself in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3JkUm0zLww&feature=related#t=01m30s
Throw it on the overhead pile. Traders at Liquid can take it. They make 50 cent on the dollar in bonus.
ha, they havent even paid out 25 since 08 because of said overhead pile.
payout = max [ k * ( p&l – c ) , we’re firing you , we’re taking you to court]
where k is a rapidly decreasing function of p&l and c is an arbitrary fudge factor used to inflict the most amount of pain on a profitable trader, where he is indifferent between staying and walking out.
screwing traders to pay jesus, the ultimate fast-track to heaven.
Everytime someone donates to Santorum, Jesus kills a kitten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi12aVa3psc#t=01m30s
p.s – Thou Shalt Not Kill
Does Liquid enjoy taking traders to court?
@ 12:16 pm
Didn’t they also blow a lot of money thanks to that former VDM manager who got bashed quite a bit (doctor whatshisname?). I would imagine that didn’t help with the bonus payout. When I was at Liquid, I got to know Chris as a fair guy, but I shall abstain from commenting on his religious beliefs.
You must be referring to Dr. Frank Neuman. He got axed about a year ago.
they had a penchant for hiring useless pricks with the title of doctor
During Volkswagon short squeeze they held a prayer meeting to seek guidance on how to deal with their position. Hey if God’s calling the shots, why would you ever need to pay traders?!
Heard it was 40% after internal costs
nutbags. wouldn’t want to work for them.
did someone say nuts?
is it true tibra have shut down their aussie single stock desk?
dude that was ages ago…
@11:16 yours 40%, offered on at 20 with egregious internal costs. they love breaking promises, just ask those stoxx traders that left a few years back
@ 2.34 pm: Could Dr. Neuman please stop badmouthing Liquid and accept that no bonus is awarded if you are responsible for losing a lot of money.
Met ingang van 8 maart 2012 wordt de premiegrens verhoogd van € 0,50 naar € 5,00 voor de 25 optiefondsen waarvan de onderliggende aandelen samen de AEX-index vormen.
funny, banks selling premium, market makers must be long like hell! Well, pretty useless premium i’d say as this market only trends up. If there’s no August/Sept event this year, i think PnLs are going to be terrible. Keep up the good work guys!!
hello…………..neuman
i heard he had a phd in dividend pricing
hello………..jerry
Who is Neumann?Works at PAN?
He has another phd in short squeeze loss maximization
@2:34 believe it was more like 20% when Stoxx and STIRs guys left. Bonus pool = 40% of PnL, then take out internal costs, then payout i.e. 2 guys, 1mln PnL, 0 bonus.. simples
@ 12:16 One mustn’t forget that trading with the fastest software (Reactor) comes at a premium. When you take this into account it’s a fair deal.
What is Reactor Software ?
A way of life. A philisophy. And the easiest way to make money in market making because it’s so fast, tailor made to Liquid’s needs.
Is Reactor made and maintained by God?
Santorum himself would trade with it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js3BYcHmBhE
They want this muddle headed dunce in possession of the launch codes?
Holy smokes I would be extremely worried about my employer’s capacity for rational thought after this campaign donation.
What do you care about bonus when you have an in-house personal trainer and paid lunch on Fridays?
the personal trainer wont give hand jobs any more, and those things dont come cheap
Hey would you please stop bad mouthing my dad!! Yeah I’m Chris’s son and my dad might profit sometimes when natural disasters happen or people suffering in some way but so what!! That doesn’t mean he wants it to happen or enjoys it and same with my Uncle. If you honestly think that my dad is just out there to make money, do some more research and you’ll find that he gives VERY generously to charity and he DOESN’T believe that this will get him to heaven. That is NOT the reason he does this. Don’t you dare try to judge my father until you actually met him and seen him for the man he is!!
How old are you Zak,
Zak,
The bottom line is your pops and uncle have zero integrity. They are known to lie, cheat and steal.
I am 17, and please explain ‘anonymous’ who they are supposedly lying to, cheating and stealing from??
Financial Markets participants, they are the ones paying execution alpha.
ok, chris siepman and gregg are neither bad men. I know them well and they are humble and very generous and unselfish. The fact that someones saying they have zero integrity baffles me as they have plenty of it, and it is obviously a horrible thing to judge men you have never met or even heard they’re side of the story. Chris is honestly one of the smartest men i have met, and it saddens me to see people being so rude and immature, talking awful things about them. They stand up for their Christian views and give money away and pay themselves less than they pay charity, and have an exceeding amount of integrity. So please go say this to their faces like a man, stop backchatting a 17 year old about his ‘pops’ and uncle and grow a pair so you can actually get out of your computer screen ‘anonymous’ and grow up. have a good day.
man, they threw stones even at Jesus, grow a pair and grow up. have a nice day.
Man, your the one fighting with a 17 year old and saying horrible things about his father to him. Pathetic. Stop hating over the internet and go talk to their face like men if you have any courage or dignity left. People like you just make me sad. And yes, they threw stones at Jesus but that doesn’t make it right. and Jesus forgave them, just as Chris isn’t crying over what some idiot writes on the internet. But still, i would expect more from our society than a bunch of sour idiots, writing lies all over the internet. So please, take it elsewhere, and if you even know Chris or Gregg, feel free to contact them i’m sure they would love your outstanding input.
haha just read the mans comment who is dissing a 17 year old trying to act all important and in the know. Grow up, liquid is a good company. And the fact you said that to a good mans son revolts me. Please, gain some knowledge and integrity yourself, then comment.
chris and gregg siepman are not known to lie cheat and steal… they seem like fine men.
‘go talk to their face like men if you have any courage or dignity left’
i am tired, old and broke, no dignity left no more.
‘People like you just make me sad.’
then change yourself?
‘i would expect more from our society than a bunch of sour idiots’
you are carrying unrealistic expectations my friend.
‘feel free to contact them i’m sure they would love your outstanding input’
why would i waste my time picking a fight with rich/successful men?
‘i am tired, old and broke, no dignity left no more.’
its not easy for anyone right now, so instead of wasting time being a self-pitying internet troll, earn some money?
‘then change yourself?’
why? YOU carry unrealistic expectations my friend if you think its not sad that some guy is spending his time writing these lies on the internet instead of doing something useful with his life.
‘you are carrying unrealistic expectations my friend.’
so you are admiting your being sour and idiotic? glad we cleared that up.
‘why would i waste my time picking a fight with rich/successful men?’
haha the real question really should be why am i wasting time bitching about them online? and i was being sarcastic if you didn’t realise.
‘so instead of wasting time’
who the fuck are you to tell anyone what to do, just mind your own goddamm business.
‘earn some money?’
how?
‘YOU carry unrealistic expectations’
what unrealistic expectation are you talking about
‘if you think its not sad that some guy is spending his time’
i don’t judge.
‘so you are admiting your being sour and idiotic’
general public is idiotic, duh.
‘real question really should be why am i wasting time bitching about them online’
the real question is why are you defending them here, rather than sucking them off at their home.
Siepmans may buy their way in to heaven by donating to charity and be ‘good men’ but they treat their employees like garbage. Ask any ‘trainee’. Fck you Zak. Your old man is a cnt.
who is Zak?
a son of bitch
you are a sad guy, spouting venom against an innocent god fearing businessman, fear the god.
Prijs de Heer…. 7,50
Prijs de Heer… 9 gulden
Prijs de Heer 12,60
Ja wij prijzen Hem steeds meer.
Praise the Lord …. 7.50
Praise the Lord … 9 guilders
Praise the Lord 12.60
Yes, we praise Him more and more.
yeah, bring on some christian rock, yeah, come on.
Rumour at Liquid Capital is they are doing a big shake down. Maybe for the better. The head of IT was forced to quit. More is to come. Won’t help morale there.
Ah ah ah. Chris Siepman is stepping down as CEO. He is being succeeded by another dumb, self-important idiot. Liquid is a sinking ship…even God is trading against them. BTW: they do treat their employees like dirt.
Liquid Capital: what is known about this firm? What do they trade? Where are they making and losing money? Who are the key traders?
chris siepman would have to be rated as one of the greatest option traders of all time. dude makes an absolute shitload of cash with pretty much the worst system in the market
anonymous at 12:05 you are obviously looking to buy a trading business on the cheap. Well…Liquid ain’t it. Mediocre staff, terrible IT, clueless management, falling revenues. Amsterdam must offer be offering better opportunities than this.
‘He is being succeeded by another dumb, self-important idiot’
who is that?
‘even God is trading against them’
when there is run of bad luck, lot of things can keep going wrong, better to hack all your exposures and wait it out
‘they do treat their employees like dirt’
welcome to capitalism, name one employer where all employees are happy with the way their company treats them.
‘what is known about this firm?’
liquid is options mm with in-house software, atom pro or something and they started doing algo trading out of sydney and london, hired the whole team off rbs
‘chris siepman would have to be rated as one of the greatest option traders of all time. dude makes an absolute shitload of cash with pretty much the worst system in the market’
well if his system is not of the fastest ones, he’s really in effect a good punter, not to diminish his skills, but there are lot of good speculators around in all sorts of financial markets/instruments
‘you are obviously looking to buy a trading business on the cheap’
he is just being curious, how did you extrapolate it to due diligence on a potential transaction?
‘Amsterdam must offer be offering better opportunities than this’
like what? the only names coming to mind are optiver, imc, Scrocca – all not for sale. What’s going on with Flow, why are they on blocks and why would somebody buy them, anybody got their pitchbook?
‘He is being succeeded by another dumb, self-important idiot’
His brother and another ex-Sales guy who will attempt to take the sole CEO title at some point.
They have fired at least 40-50% of their staff recently. Cutting costs every which way they can.
It is a sinking ship.
‘like what? the only names coming to mind are optiver, imc, Scrocca – all not for sale. ‘
You are wrong my friend. They’re all traders. If the price is right, they’ll sell. They’re just not actively looking for buyers.
Heard their top guys left to start their own firms a while ago…and the guy who took over running the floor is not great.
‘His brother and another ex-Sales guy who will attempt to take the sole CEO title at some point.’
it’s an interesting debate, if a non-trader can lead a trading company successfully.
‘They have fired at least 40-50% of their staff recently. Cutting costs every which way they can.’
Everyone in the industry is doing that, what’s the big fuss?
‘It is a sinking ship.’
How did you conclude that, just from the staffing levels?
‘You are wrong my friend. They’re all traders. If the price is right, they’ll sell. They’re just not actively looking for buyers’
wrong is too strong, let me re-phrase, they are not for active sale. the point not to be missed is that bid ain’t there and offer expected might be unrealistic, so you can revert to – they are not for sale.
‘Heard their top guys left to start their own firms a while ago…and the guy who took over running the floor is not great.’
is that liquid you are talking about, are you referring to stoxx50 traders?
who is running the floor?
Both Stoxx50 and Rates…
so what’s the big deal, this has been known for while, what has liquid been doing all this time?
Liquid need to get Chris Siepman off his surfboard in California and back as Head Trader because the current head trader is a clueless idiot. The ex-sales guy and his brother can do the CEO duties. With Chris Siepman driving the trading floor none of the MMs in Amsterdam or anywhere will be able to touch them.
who the fuck cares about Chris Siepman? Why all these comments on him?
‘the current head trader is a clueless idiot’
who is that, why do you call him clueless?
‘With Chris Siepman driving the trading floor none of the MMs in Amsterdam or anywhere will be able to touch them’
how did you reach that conclusion?
‘who the fuck cares about Chris Siepman? Why all these comments on him?’
well, potentially if he is back as head trader and could put liquid’s trading right back up, then liquid for one, should def care about Chris?
yes but who cares about liquid? It’s a completely irrelevant company compared to the big players (IMC, Optiver, Getco).
people working at Liquid cares about Liquid?
welcome to capitalism, name one employer where all employees are happy with the way their company treats them.
By this comment you show that you don’t understand bupcke about capitalism.
Anyway, talk in the street is that Liquid is particularly bad with staff: they make promises that they don’t live up to, change traders pay outs when suits them, the brothers generally don’t seem to be particularly nice people (met one of them wasn’t impressed).
Anyway I agree about the last comment who cares about them.
‘By this comment you show that you don’t understand bupcke about capitalism.’
which part of capitalism you think i don’t understand?
‘talk in the street is that Liquid is particularly bad with staff: they make promises that they don’t live up to’
all the companies do that, its not limited to Liquid, what do you think happens in Goldman Sachs
‘change traders pay outs when suits them’
what’s new, look what commerz bank did to its payouts
‘the brothers generally don’t seem to be particularly nice people’
clearly jamie dimon is very nice guy to work for
‘(met one of them wasn’t impressed)’
so we are going by your first impression?
‘I agree about the last comment who cares about them.’
people working in Liquid care about themselves>?
‘what’s new, look what commerz bank did to its payouts’
Sorry to spoil your illusion of how the world works but Commerz bank lost the case and were ordered to pay their traders bonuses. Just because others follow a wrong practice it doesn’t really make your practice right. However not sure if its true that liquid change payouts. Never heard of anything major from anyone there.
‘the brothers generally don’t seem to be particularly nice people’
clearly jamie dimon is very nice guy to work for
Again you don’t have a clue of this business. Only a clueless uneducated git would compare the intellectual stature of the owners of a two-bit mm firm with one of the most successful CEOs in IB. What planet do you come from? What do they smoke up there (probably not what they smoke in Amsterdam).
which part of capitalism you think i don’t understand?
You obviously work at Liquid!
‘Sorry to spoil your illusion of how the world works’
no pls, go right ahead, teach me something new
‘Commerz bank lost the case and were ordered to pay their traders bonuses’
yes, because they made a mistake of writing it in their contracts, the rest of the world is smart enough to use bonuses as carrot and not put in the contract
‘Just because others follow a wrong practice it doesn’t really make your practice right’
which is wrong practice? using bonus as a carrot? how is that wrong, that’s capitalism, every worker bee is given the hope, few achieve the glory, or am i under a false illusion of how the world works?
‘However not sure if its true that liquid change payouts. Never heard of anything major from anyone there’
bonuses are discretionary, how many times this needs to be repeated?
‘Only a clueless uneducated git would compare the intellectual stature of the owners of a two-bit mm firm with one of the most successful CEOs in IB’
you are taken in by media hype around Jamie isn’t it? While he is the CEO of the firm, he didn’t build the god-damm House of Morgan, read the bloody history of the firm to know what you are dealing with. Jamie was transported over from Bank One in not too distant past. He got lucky that he is risk averse person and those policies propelled the bank right to the top during the risk-off period. While he is highly rated retail and commercial banker, he has no bloody idea of risk taking in capital markets. he and i presume his right hand mike cavanagh, got together and ended up paying the market 7bn to get out of CIO positions, god damm genius that was.
Not to get distracted with misgivings within JPM, the point was not to look at the absolute levels of success, but what a person can achieve with the opportunity set presented. if you think jamie is ‘nice’ person to work with, then you ain’t seen what goes on within JPMorgan. GS & JPM are at pinnacle of its existence because they root out mediocrity or atleast try to, not sure why the brothers are being faulted for ‘generally don’t seem to be particularly nice people’
‘You obviously work at Liquid!’
how did you conclude that?
‘yes, because they made a mistake of writing it in their contracts, the rest of the world is smart enough to use bonuses as carrot and not put in the contract’
Not true. The case wasn’t that simple. They did not spend 2.5 years in court to argue over something that was written in contracts. It was a case of verbal promises made in internal meetings and informal discussions and email I believe which the court deemed to be contractually binding. And management there also used the word discretionary
‘‘You obviously work at Liquid!’’
‘how did you conclude that?’
Haha you certainly don’t seem to be denying it.
okay i officially deny the sin, what led you to guess liquid employment?
‘It was a case of verbal promises made in internal meetings and informal discussions and email I believe which the court deemed to be contractually binding. And management there also used the word discretionary’
no bloody way, stop making shit up. the only reason court can rule in favor of bankers is written word. Email is good enough written word, it doesn’t have to be in employment contract letter. Verbal promise wouldn’t hold a second in the court, okay maybe recorded tapes in the insider case, but otherwise spoken word is out of discussion.
You guys have far too much time in your hands…
Envious?
‘It was a case of verbal promises made in internal meetings and informal discussions and email I believe which the court deemed to be contractually binding. And management there also used the word discretionary’
no bloody way, stop making shit up. the only reason court can rule in favor of bankers is written word. Email is good enough written word, it doesn’t have to be in employment contract letter. Verbal promise wouldn’t hold a second in the court, okay maybe recorded tapes in the insider case, but otherwise spoken word is out of discussion.
Don’t think so. I suggest you check the following release on the ruling
http://www.gqemploymentlaw.com/new-to-gq/news/press-releases/article-139-2012-05/ruling-on-commerzbank-bonus-row
It appears management believed they were protected because the contract said bonuses were discretionary.
‘In August 2008 the then Dresdner Kleinwort Chief Executive, Stefan Jentzsch, announced in a meeting with staff they would receive a guaranteed minimum bonus pool of EUR 400 million.’
if you fucking say that in a townhall, what do you expect the audience and the court to do?
Yes so then stop making stupid statements like ‘Verbal promise wouldn’t hold a second in the court’ and ‘ the only reason court can rule in favor of bankers is written word’. Just noticed you spell favour the American way.
who gives a flying fuck about how to spell ‘favour’
and stop confusing what i said earlier, you stupidly equated ‘verbal promise’ to a bloody town hall, how naive are you, ‘verbal promise’ is maybe a privately spoken carrot, not a god damm hard number announcement with 200 senior executives to back it up. of course the court is ruling that as equivalent to written word, what part is not consistent in your muppet head?
now now children…
That poor Liquid managers beginning to crack..
Dude, take a chill pill
His bonus must be related to the number of comments he posts on this forum
‘now now children…’
‘That poor Liquid managers beginning to crack..’
‘Dude, take a chill pill’
why are few curse/tough words being equated to loosing temper?
‘His bonus must be related to the number of comments he posts on this forum’
so how does the HR keep a track on this number?
Haha…they don’t need to. Bonuses are ‘discretionary’ with a ‘private’ verbal agreement.
there you go, so how is bonus being equated to the number of comments?
Anyone have details about retrenchments at Tibra? Are they retrenching in Sydney?
yes, of course, the mediocre ones are always being retrenched on the side, add some on top for business reasons, watch your performance, business cycle and make sure to kiss management’s arse.