Thin trading. Olso Børse cløses early

2 Jul 2012

We all face the same problem. Volumes in the market are under pressure, even big swings in the stockmarket won’t spark the good old trading. Some firms such as Getco have been forced to cut some staff. Nothing new here, regular economic ebb and flow.

However, something strange is happening near the polar circle. And it isn’t even close to Christmas. The Norwegian exchange Olso Børse decided to cut the opening hours. As from August 6th, the equity and derivative exchange will shut the doors at 16:30. This trial period will last six months.

Not much trading anyway, and concentrating the volume in just a few hours could improve liquidity. In addition, this will allow companies and brokers “to focus on fundraisings outside exchange opening hours”. Maybe. Guess the Norwegians run the risk of isolating themselves from the trading venues in the rest of the world. But this Scandinavian country, they have got the oil.

Nevertheless an interesting move in a time with almost round-the-clock trading. Some people in Oslo will have more time for their hobbies soon. Fishing. Cooking. I would prefer opening an hour later, though.

26 Responses to Thin trading. Olso Børse cløses early

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anonymous

July 2nd, 2012 at 11:31 pm

Yah missing the LSE close and second hour of NYSE is not such a great idea, but then again missing Europe/UK open ain’t feasible, they should try the Asian model of having a lunch break of 1 hour, they can go fishing in the water hole for their lunch during that time,

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anonymous

July 3rd, 2012 at 3:59 pm

Jack, typo in the header:

Thin trading. Olso Børse cløses early

Olso=Oslo

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anonymous

July 3rd, 2012 at 4:19 pm

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/NSD681/2009/actions

It is fairly clear from the pleadings and the issues that have been agitated while I have been managing the proceedings, that Optiver alleges that from about mid-2006 the personal respondents went about a plan to set up the corporate Tibra parties’ businesses. The encrypted emails may or may not contain other material relating to any particular documentation of any such plan. However, the “Things to do” document attached to Mr Berry’s email of 18 July 2006, appears to reveal that some detailed consideration had been given as to how various persons would participate in establishing the new business. It specifically provided for the deletion of, relevantly, emails, sent items, deleted items, Skype chats, files and the like from individuals’ computer hard drives, required them to copy all existing files into new files, and then to wipe clean all the personal hard drives of individual employees including those who are Tibra party respondents.
While the Tibra parties argued that the “Things to do” document’s requirement to copy existing files into new files negated any adverse inferences that might be drawn from any plan to erase the other material, it is not clear that this would necessarily be so. The various individual respondents, other than Mr Bhandari, seem to have arrived at a position by one route or another that they no longer have those items or data in their possession, custody or power. Mr Bhandari, on the other hand, copied all of his material onto the Tibra system, even though the encrypted emails have been completely unreadable until recently, and even now only some have been deciphered.
I am satisfied that Optiver is entitled to explore, in discovery and the preparation of its case, these materials that have only recently become available to be looked at by them, through no fault of their own. They are also entitled to consider the issues that these materials raise.

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anonymous

July 3rd, 2012 at 6:09 pm

naughty boys

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 1:19 am

http://www.peakprosperity.com/podcast/79166/joe-saluzzi-hft-parasites-killing-market-host

With such scale, speed, and profitability, HFTs have turned the market away from being an efficient price-setting mechanism and perverted it into a casino where the clientele of human investors gets fleeced.

And our regulators are so outmatched by the scope, complexity, and funding of these titanic HFT players that at moment, there are pretty much zero consequences for bad actors.

Interestingly, these HFT parasites, which live by generating fractions of pennies in millisecond-timed trades, may be sowing the seeds of their own demise through their blind gluttony and hyper-competitiveness. As their quest for incremental advantage begins to bump up against the limits of physics (such as the speed of light), the marginal cost of the next increment of advantage increases exponentially. Profitability is being squeezed out and will disappear entirely some day.

Sounds good to the rest of us investors, right? Not so fast. A key question to ask, should these parasites experience a self-induced mass-extinction effect, is:

What will happen to asset prices when all that volume suddenly disappears?

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 3:26 am

Morons like these kill a healthy debate and decision making, all the extreme language just comes out as looking like bigoted biased opinion piece rather than well grounded piece on pros vs cons

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 6:12 am

@ 3:26
I think the point that is missing from the article from Peak Prosperity is about effective capital utilisation. Until someone from the HFT community convinces me with metrics that HFT is a productive use of capital that assists with the flow of capital towards productive investment then I would be swayed.
I am all for capitalism, price discovery and markets. But all systems have rules. You wouldn’t take to the field if you knew the other side had an unfair advantage or was lobbying the referee to influence his decision making in the oppositions favour. I think that is why this industry is parasitic and why retail investors are progressively withdrawing. You don’t take the field if you think the other side has an unfair advantage. Trust in the system is eroding and HFT along with Bernie Madoff, John Corzine, Bob Diamond, Jamie Diamond et al is part of that erosion.
I ask a simple question. What value; product or service do you provide for the economic system? Admittedly, I make the assumption that the economic system is a mechanism for the distribution of wealth based on inputs and outputs….ie a system. As far as I can see there is no input or output, there is just syphoning off and white collar looting.
Before you say that you provide liquidity I contend investors creating real value, products and services in an economic system are interested in the dividend stream of the company and its ongoing performance, month to month quarter to quarter. Hence whether an investment transaction is executed in the next minute or half hour is largely irrelevant. It’s a sad indictment of this system that it is so short-termism helped along by HFT.
You may argue that your personal accumulation of wealth ‘trickle’s down.’ Firstly, I hardly see this as efficient use of capital. Secondly, if you believe in trickle down then by extension don’t be surprised that the culture of how HFT make money trickles down to the masses as well. In my view it is a form of looting so don’t be surprised in the future that if you walk down the street and you get mugged. Its no different. In my mind there is no difference between a hoody during the London riots looting a Gucci store to what you guys do from an economic system standpoint. And allegedly, this culture is further demonstrated in the Optiver vs Tibra case; looting from each other. And whilst you may be able to persuade me with forthcoming arguments which I will read and respect it may not be me you need to convince….its the 99%…… to turn a phrase.
Additionally, it goes without saying that you HFT guys and programmers are quite smart. Instead of applying that knowledge in coming up with alternative energy or a cure for cancer its directed towards harvesting capital and improving computer speeds. You may argue that there is a spin-off value to other sectors from this technology development, but again its hardly optimal or efficient. Its just a view but I don’t see that as effective labour utilisation.
And hey Karma has a funny of finding people. If you walk down the street and get caught in the cross-fire of the next London riots between yourselves and the people that you indirectly yet materially financially marginalised then perhaps then you will understand.
Computer based looting aint no different to hoody based looting.

Again just a view but one thing I have noticed on my occasional visit to this site is the acid tongue responses amongst each other and who earned more then each other. It seems there is a preoccupation to measure yourself and your abilities with a financial ruler – fine. Go to an entrepreneur website and I think you will find the comments much more dynamic, creative and engaging. If thats how you measure yourself, derive fulfilment and your contribution in this world – fine. Its up every individual to find out to find out how they measure themselves. But I ask you to reflect upon whether your intelligence could be put to more productive use.
Peace Brothers and Sisters.

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 10:08 am

What do you need capital utilization for? HFT exists because their returns on capital are higher than the opportunity cost, that means they are involved in ‘productive’ investment, the quotes here are used to indicate that this is possibly non-productive, casinos provide gambling/entertainment facility, that could also be ‘non-productive’ use of capital, similarly HFT enable financial market gambling by tight market making, it’s just a frictional cost for capital flow and should be taxed at higher rate like govt prefer to charge high tax on tobacco, liquor, gambling etc,

It’s not fair to say retail are withdrawing mainly due to parasitic HFT, there are other stronger forces at play, the developed world is in year 5 of deleveraging, 10 more years to go, equity is really an option on bunch of assets with debt as strike price, as an option/leverage, equity is not so attractive in deleveraging markets, the drawdown in 08/09 is still fresh, volatility is still high, 15 year returns are flat at best, memories of 30 year superbubble/blinding bull markets are fading at best, meanwhile the alternative US debt market has continued accelerated bull market, when or if this bond bubble bursts, but for now 1year return on long bond fund is 30%+, no wonder retail is not returning to equities and still piling in on bonds, there are other people piling in bonds etc but that’s another story,

As you rightly say Finance doesn’t have input or output, it’s a service industry, as a brokerage cost on capital flows it should be say few percentage points, but at 07 peak 40% of S&P earnings came from financials, this is now reverted to normal mean and expect it to stay there, the industry is so massively super ‘beta’, if the leverage/equity bull markets don’t come back, the financials aren’t going anywhere, their whole business model is based on taking brokerage cost on capital flows, and the capital only flows in bull markets/leveraging,

‘Trickle down’ is mass appeal catch phrase popularized by Republicans to try keep taxes low on Rich people, don’t buy this politicking manoeuvre,

the best metaphor for HFT is letting a bunch of rats loose in your nation’s grainary, what good do they do,

‘99%’ is not correct expectation, its more like majority to win elections, normal people are lazy, biased, distracted, mis-opinionated; they end up fighting each other rather than fight the common problem, not that HFT is the biggest problem, but yes it can be taxed at higher rate,

don’t worry about financial taking up smart people, it’s not the strong case any more as once it was, the pay-offs have massively re-aligned with other alternatives,

don’t worry about acid tongue responses and bonus show-offs, people with small dicks do that to make themselves feel good, after all you don’t get upset when handicap people take too long to get off bus, likewise,

to think if that was the reason they entered financials in the first place, to make up for their other handicap,

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 10:15 am

@4.19: thanks for posting. That’s interesting stuff.
I’m sure Tibra will claim it’s normal practice to delete/destroy all data. After all, they are a super-secret ultra-advanced HFT outfit. I’m wondering if they still do this on a regular basis.

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 5:18 pm

“What will happen to asset prices when all that volume suddenly disappears?”

Volume?

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

The markets will die a slow death.

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 5:48 pm

Sounds like Danny fucked up. Too bad so sad. And Andy, if you’re reading, we know, bro.

But wait, shock, slippery Sergey says F1 stealin is a-ok.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/04/code-not-physical-property/

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 7:04 pm

http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2012-06-15/flow-traders-2011-revenues

Soaring revenues add shine to Dutch HFT

A Dutch high-frequency trading firm – which is expected to be put up for sale following a strategic review – reported a near-doubling of revenues in its Amsterdam office last year.

Anybody got access to the rest of the article?

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 7:22 pm

‘The markets will die a slow death.’

Just because the markets are range bound from deflationary deleveraging and central banks increasing high powered monetary base, doesn’t mean that bull market would never ever be back, not likely this decade though,

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 7:31 pm

Sergey case seem to be focussing more on criminal prosecution/imprisonment, optiver case seem to be more on claiming monetary damages unless rob hates bhandari so much as to try getting him behind bars,

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

Can’t wait to see who FOKs who.

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

“not likely this decade though”

7 years is a long time span to predict. care to make an educated guess on the Dow in 2025 and 2045? that would be a great help. thanks.

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anonymous

July 4th, 2012 at 9:48 pm

boy you really are stupid, how is “not likely this decade though” a prediction, that’s why there is a word ‘likely’ in front of it,

if you still haven’t figured out, financial markets are unpredictable, just because i know that doesn’t mean i can actually predict it, there is likely scenario though that can be painted out based on 30year credit bubble and 15 year deleveraging cycle, exact timings, durations and path to it is unpredictable since it depends on the actions of the participants – private, govt, central banks, how can anyone predict when and how much merkel is going to give in, financial markets are going to react and that is going to go back as feedback loop, that’s reflexivity, reality and participants interact and influence each other, you can’t predict, you can however speculate,

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anonymous

July 5th, 2012 at 4:45 am

http://www.smh.com.au/business/secret-email-lifts-lid-on-richlister-plans-court-told-20120704-21hmm.html

Front page on the sydney morning herald website.

Perhaps this could be posted on a more appropriate page.

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anonymous

July 5th, 2012 at 11:07 am

Dow in 2025: 100.000
Dow in 2045: 1.000.000
I could be off by a few zeroes though.

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anonymous

July 6th, 2012 at 1:11 am

Haha, that’s really funny,

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anonymous

July 17th, 2012 at 11:59 am

they would have been better off, introducing a longer lunch break and grabbing opening and closing auction activity from the LSE.

that way they could at least go fishing during the day.

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GiGa-Dividendnaaiers

July 31st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

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anonymous

August 1st, 2012 at 7:19 am

Price-Target Compass and Compass have over 10 years specializing in the field of offering ready-made investment products for a wide audience.

Lol, buy some equity, inflation linked, gold, real estate and bonds, what ready-customized investment bs they are trying to peddle?

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