MMX exit from Amsterdam
The other day when checking the Euronext excel files for the Primary Market Maker play off, I noticed something strange. A small market maker has completely left the Euronext option market. MMX, a startup consisting of a couple former All Options traders, signed for more than a dozen quoting licenses last year – and it appears they have thrown in the towel when it comes to the options on Royal Dutch, Philips, Fugro etc.
It’s a difficult market, and it wouldn’t be completely unthinkable when a market maker is forced to shut the doors altogether. On the other hand, MMX may feel themselves more comfortable trading outside the Eurozone. They are listed as market maker for almost a hundred single stock options in London (xls). Usually only with the ever present Timber Hill as company. Sometimes alone, lonely quoting in option classes such as Fresnillo and Barratt Developments – to name but a few. Odd.
First!
London don’t need no bloody options, there are enuf spread betting outfits at competitive costs with large leverage, options mm should die already
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130213/NEWS01/130219894/getco-revenue-profit-plunged-last-year
Revenue and profit at Getco LLC, the Chicago high-speed trading firm, plunged last year, according to the company’s first-ever public release of financial results.
Getco has kept its financial results and business practices largely under wraps as a privately held company since its founding in 1999, but the merger with publicly traded Knight Capital Group Inc. is forcing it to reveal more about its business.
Net income dropped 82 percent to $24.6 million for the first nine months of 2012, compared with $134.8 million for the period in 2011, as Getco’s revenue was cut nearly in half to $413.6 million, from $722.2 million, according to a regulatory filing the company made today as part of its plan to merge with Knight.
Getco’s biggest business is in buying and selling publicly traded assets as a market-maker across some 50 exchanges worldwide. In the filing, it blamed a decline in trading volumes and volatility last year for the lower profits.
The lackluster 2012 results shed light on the company’s decision last February to name a new CEO, promoting Daniel Coleman to the top post as co-founders and majority owners Stephen Schuler and Dan Tierney stepped back. Getco last year also cut employees, including some top managers.
The company’s revenue and net income peaked in 2008 and then declined steadily the following two years, despite speculation that events such as the May 2010 flash crash were driving up volatility and thus boosting profits for big high-speed traders, such as Getco. Even when revenue recovered somewhat in 2011, profits were little changed from 2010.
With Knight based in Jersey City, N.J., and maintaining a large operation in New York, there has been speculation that Getco might shift its Chicago headquarters eastward, but the filing dispelled that possibility, at least for now.
“Getco has no plans for significant office expansions or relocations in the near term,” the filing said.
While market-making accounted for more than 90 percent of Getco’s revenue last year, the firm also provides trade execution services in which it buys and sells assets on behalf of customers. That business recorded a pretax loss for the first nine months of last year and 2011, according to the filing.
Knight, which also provides market-making and trade execution services, had 1,524 full-time employees as of the end of last year.
‘also provides trade execution services in which it buys and sells assets on behalf of customers. That business recorded a pretax loss for the first nine months of last year and 2011, according to the filing.’
isn’t this the biz idea that dan coleman came pitching as next generational for getco, it’s mind-boggling that co-founders bought this smooth talking pitch from ex-bank type, lol, this will pay in long term isn’t it?
How many employees did Getco have before the merger ?
Knight is definitely overpopulated.
200-300 for getco?
http://dealbreaker.com/2013/02/getco-hoping-that-acquiring-knight-capital-will-bring-back-some-of-the-excitement-of-its-glory-days/
great article, it is surprising how the trend of decreasing revenues at Getco matches the IMC situation
http://fd.nl/economie-politiek/937894-1302/wanbeleid-bij-van-der-moolen
Bad start of the weekend for some people
This verdict is a travesty! Richard was framed by Peter Zwart and Paardekooper who are in reality directly responsible for the demise of Van Der Moolen.
“great article, it is surprising how the trend of decreasing revenues at Getco matches the IMC situation’
Guess it is just the cyclical nature of the business. 2012 been a year of decreasing implied volatility and low volumes hence bad business. A lot of firms actually closed down desks and books across the board.
Its only the big monopolies which have a cash balance/war chest which have managed to survive the carnage and still have people on board.
‘great article, it is surprising how the trend of decreasing revenues at Getco matches the IMC situation’
it matches the whole bloody industry, how abt you get out from the well of IMC and swim a bit in the sea tiny little weasel
‘great article’
what is so great about it, all this is inherently obvious to any reasonable industry participant?
‘http://fd.nl/economie-politiek/937894-1302/wanbeleid-bij-van-der-moolen’
anybody got a transcript for this pls?
Ik ben besig met een vertaling van de uidspraak van de ondernemingskamer. Moed het alleen nog controleren op spelvouten. Zodra ik daarmee klaar ben zal ik het hier met jullie delen. Want: if you cannot share, you cannot multiple!
Groeten uit Londen
Richard
cc: hkroon@libello.com
‘how abt you get out from the well of IMC’
the well of IMC? it is horrible to work here, everyday could be the last one, people are fired without apparent reason continuously, the year started very badly, there is nothing well at IMC
I’m besig with a translation of the uidspraak of the Enterprise. Courage the only check spelvouten. Once I finished it, I will share with you here. Because: if you can not share, you can not multiple!
Greetings from London
Richard
cc: hkroon@libello.com
you guys still ain’t getting over RDD?
‘how abt you get out from the well of IMC’
you completely missed the point
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/said-the-sea-turtle-to-a-frog-in-a-well-340648.html
‘it is horrible to work here’
that’s the case in most place
‘everyday could be the last one’
it’s not as bad as you complain
‘people are fired without apparent reason continuously’
ask them and they would tell you that their work was over and they were overpaid to begin with
‘the year started very badly’
with volatility and volumes at generational low what else can you expect at prop hft/mm
People are fired from IMC because they cost too much.
The so called partners including Ivo, Tim, Brian, Robin, Koen all made Euro 9 mio each last year. Yet some poor hard working stiff who is not a partner is conspired expensive and fired.
Euro 9 mio for a bunch of guys who did very little. Rob is just butt stupid.
Koen does not deserve 1 Euro of bonus, since he took over Zug the office had its biggest lost since ever (more than the bonus the partners apparently got). This guy does not understand anything about management, trading, and IT. Nobody in Zug takes him seriously anymore ’cause it is obvious that he has only one goal: close the Zug office but before he needs to move all smart ideas from SA to Amsterdam or Chicago. With the help of a local yes man he is bringing in spies from Amsterdam to suck all the know how and to replace the IT systems with some other crappy SW, he is even moving traders to Chicago with some ridiculous excuse, what a great performance!
‘People are fired from IMC because they cost too much’
yes, once the work is finish, why would you continue the high pay, next.
‘The so called partners including Ivo, Tim, Brian, Robin, Koen all made Euro 9 mio each last year’
They are the owners of the firm, do you ask questions when the shareholders on other businesses enjoy returns on their stock prices or dividends, you butt stupid.
‘Yet some poor hard working stiff who is not a partner is conspired expensive and fired’
if your work is finished and you can be replaced, you will be, what’s with all the socialist crap of sharing the wealth equally?
‘Euro 9 mio for a bunch of guys who did very little. Rob is just butt stupid.’
you would have done the same if you were in rob’s shoes, it’s just that you are not and retain no ability to think in his position and thus not likely to ever be in that position, go make your resume now.
‘the so called partners including Ivo, Tim, Brian, Robin, Koen all made Euro 9 mio each last year’
how much ownership of imc do these 5 have vs rob n pot. was this 9 mil paid in cash, dividend, stock, restricted, options what?
‘Koen does not deserve 1 Euro of bonus, since he took over Zug the office had its biggest lost since ever (more than the bonus the partners apparently got)’
no you are missing the point, if zug dropped 10mil, in his absence zug could have dropped say 30 mil, so he saved rob n pot 20 mil, that should deserve good payout?
‘This guy does not understand anything about management, trading, and IT’
what’s there to understand, you give 1-5 ratings to your employees as a management, join bid-offer as trading and be as fast as your competitor in IT, what a whole of cock-shit it takes to understand that.
‘Nobody in Zug takes him seriously anymore ’cause it is obvious that he has only one goal: close the Zug office but before he needs to move all smart ideas from SA to Amsterdam or Chicago’
what’s SA? if he is been asked by rob n pot to do that, he seems to have done that very well, he gets 5 out of 5, and well deserved bonus for his concentrated and quick execution
‘With the help of a local yes man he is bringing in spies from Amsterdam to suck all the know how and to replace the IT systems with some other crappy SW, he is even moving traders to Chicago with some ridiculous excuse, what a great performance!’
indeed great performance, stop cribbing and go work on your resume.
‘Yet some poor hard working stiff who is not a partner is conspired expensive and fired’
it’s quite remarkable how in europe, people consider their right to have equal share in the wealth and employment for life, unlike in america where getting fired during tough market conditions is totally acceptable and wealth creation largely goes to the owner/entrepreneur and the workers are fed on building their own american dream in future, the divergence in the economic future of the two major developed regions is wholly expected
Whole point that is made is not a socialist 1. The so called “partners” aren’t share holders. They are highest management, cash pay out, executing for the 2 actual shareholders.
They are in the c*ck suckin’/ass crawlin’ seat firing people for Rob n Wiet to be left with nothing but tiny creepy little yes man who can operate the machines for them. Money wise a good decision? Probably for all of them.
Butt stupid from Rob? Guess so, partners would have done their leeching for half the money too.
Capitalism is not a few getting rich off the wages of others. That is socialism. Go read a good economic textbook on the subject. I suggest Mankiw. Google made millionaires across the board including the janitor. IMC only pays these Few so called partners when they actually don’t do much. Also they don’t own shares in the company their bonus is all cash and the work is done by the next level down. This is what Russia is like. The bonus structure also encourages the partnership to screw the other participants so that they can get a bigger piece of the bonus pool. Talk about perverse incentives.
that’s not a discussion about socialism and capitalism, that’s a discussion about the level of bonuses some people get for doing nothing and in addition to that, for being morons
‘okay, so if you agree owners and managers can decide the payout and profit sharing in capitalism’
yes, finally a straight personality with a good judgment. You would perfectly qualify for an IMC yes man and for a big bonus. Perhaps time to work on your resume? IMC is looking for people like you.
@7:36. How is IMC HR these days? You enjoying yourself?
Clearly your only retort is that this is life. Don’t like it leave. But the argument is what you miss. IMC says that it values all people and it is their most important asset. It also says they pay people a market wage. The conversation I am sure able means to state that IMC is full of shite. And no not all companies are that bad.
So @7:36 Rob wants to wipe his arse and he is calling for you.
‘You would perfectly qualify for an IMC yes man and for a big bonus’
you don’t want that?
‘Perhaps time to work on your resume? IMC is looking for people like you.’
i be happy to oblige
‘@7:36. How is IMC HR these days? You enjoying yourself?’
its not the imc hr, they wouldn’t have enough brains to know the difference between markets and capitalism
‘Clearly your only retort is that this is life.’
it is, isn’t it, or you been watching too much tv and start believing in the fantasy land?
‘Don’t like it leave.’
well life is too short, if you don’t like it, why suffer?
‘But the argument is what you miss’
no argument is getting missed sonny
‘IMC says that it values all people and it is their most important asset. It also says they pay people a market wage’
you haven’t dealt with people full of shit? bursting out of their ears, all the time?
‘The conversation I am sure able means to state that IMC is full of shite. ‘
again with the complaining, listen mate
‘And no not all companies are that bad.’
if you think its that bad, leave, and join companies that are not bad, what’s with all the moaning and drama
‘So @7:36 Rob wants to wipe his arse and he is calling for you.’
haha, you are so funny, and so bitter, both at same time, remarkable, you are not happy, leave already, you would do yourself and your colleagues a favor who are no doubt suffering from all your negativity about the employer who feeds you
‘the so called partners including Ivo, Tim, Brian, Robin, Koen all made Euro 9 mio each last year’
Pretty good deal huh.
In optiver the guys who make that much are all retired founders. No one working in the firm makes that much. (Not even hilgers)
Its funny that this entire thread/comment section stems from an imaginary bonus figure from an anonymous source…
did they make 9 million each or do they have to split it?
their bonus pool for 2012 was 9 mio in total. The higher amount was paid to Tim, 3.5 millions. The lowest to Koen 400k, the rest was roughly shared between the other partners
sounds fair enuf, similar to what optiver would pay
yes, that’s the usual level of bonuses in trading and they do not seem to be overpaid, seem to be fair. Why are IMC folks complaining so much about that?
I think the bonuses aren’t actually what bothers most people there. Its the scumbag culture that does. Bonuses have always been steep, but culture hasn’t always been back-stabbing and rotten (so pls don’t say its the same everywhere).
Combined with fear of being kicked to the curbs without any reasonable performance management is why people hate it so much.
That’s the whole strategy; use the yes men to get everybody out who recalls and you have yourself a new culture.
Complainers don’t walk, coz they wouldn’t make half in any other day 2 day job I guess. And yes, they probably should or put a sock in it…
Or sit and wait, they’re top of the list anyways, and hope for some petty cash to be sent home with.
agree, the IMC culture is completely rotten. Everybody would agree to pay high bonuses to high performers, but here we are like in communism: total absence of meritocracy, too much money flows into the pockets of people for just saying yes. Too much politics, the spirit of capitalism, entrepreneurship, innovation, compensation for good results, etc is completely absent in this company.
‘Why are IMC folks complaining so much about that?’
they seem to have reach the conclusion that everybody should be paid same and have employment for life, rather than in real life where people are fired after their work is over while being paid market rate and this alongside management who can get compensated mio if they execute shareholders’ plan
‘Its the scumbag culture that does’
this is the perception that imc people seem to think, of what actual real life culture looks like
‘culture hasn’t always been back-stabbing and rotten’
then you were lucky when it wasn’t real life before
‘so pls don’t say its the same everywhere’
back-stabbing and arse kissing is the name of the game when there is relative grading and bonuses, what else do you expect, your colleague to put in a good word for you, take lower comp and get fired before you in downturn?
‘Combined with fear of being kicked to the curbs without any reasonable performance management is why people hate it so much.’
if they are being kicked out, then they are not good performers, otherwise they would be retained, there’s your bloody performance management, & if hate it so much, just leave, your negativity rubs off on all the various people around you
‘That’s the whole strategy; use the yes men to get everybody out who recalls and you have yourself a new culture.’
can you rephrase this point again?
‘Complainers don’t walk, coz they wouldn’t make half in any other day 2 day job I guess. And yes, they probably should or put a sock in it…’
then they should stop complainting and definitely put a sock in it
‘Or sit and wait, they’re top of the list anyways, and hope for some petty cash to be sent home with.’
yes work hard, don’t complain and make dough, not too complicated is it?
‘agree, the IMC culture is completely rotten’
then why do you continue to work in the rotten culture?
‘total absence of meritocracy’
yes, that’s why imc is done well for itself
‘too much money flows into the pockets of people for just saying yes’
this industry is full of ego, learning to say yes should be first and most important lesson when entering the industry
‘Too much politics’
define too much
‘the spirit of capitalism, entrepreneurship, innovation, compensation for good results, etc is completely absent in this company.’
refer to the second point above
There is a lot of churn and burn happening in the business at the moment.
I have never seen so many guys quitting joining other firms pissing people off in the new firm. People in those firms resigning and going elsewhere. The whole movement of the business in the past 6 months had been mind blowing.
lots of churn must mean big profits for headhunters. The pathetic thing is that management are prepared to pay their rip off fees.
those complaining at IMC. those people at the top tiers are of course getting paid more than others cause they play the game right. if you think you deserve more than any of these guys you’re more than welcome to go in the field.
otherwise just leave and trade for yourself, put your money where your mouth is. some people have and they’re doing alright.
Anyone needs a job in Switzerland?
http://nl.linkedin.com/jobs/jobs-Market-Risk-Manager-4906587
What is the reason for that? What products can they trade there?
Any clue why optiver is looking to expand in switzerland when they can have all tax efficiencies possible from amsterdam ?
Just in case a transaction tax will get implemented?
always ahead of the market
‘those complaining at IMC. those people at the top tiers are of course getting paid more than others cause they play the game right’
if you would knows the P&L figures at IMC you would not write this bullshit
what are these p&l figures you are talking about and why do you think the comments above are bs?
‘Just in case a transaction tax will get implemented?’
if there are transaction tax on euroland executions, hows geographical move to swizz make a difference, does it matter if you trade from outside the euroland jurisdiction?
‘The pathetic thing is that management are prepared to pay their rip off fees’
that’s the game which other comment referred to, you have to always squeeze the existing staff and be ready to bear the consequence to bring in new talent, the rip off fees is made good by keeping the squueze on existing staff as well as being able to hire cheap talent readily available these days
@ 11:28
what difference does it make? pnl or no pnl, people on the higher level are always gonna get paid more.
and what makes you think i don’t know the pnl figures?
that’s not your business
why not?
can i ask you who you are and how much money you made this year then?
The word goes that at februari 1st some guy’s left 323-trading.
Does anyone know what the final bottleneck was between them and Eelco?
‘can i ask you who you are and how much money you made this year then?’
who are you asking this of?
‘Does anyone know what the final bottleneck was between them and Eelco?’
management didn’t like his trading style, the employee didnt like his bonus?
Probably the trader did not like Eelco.
what’s there to not like eelco?
What’ there not like about Eelco?!
what’S there NOT to like about eelco?!
haha, any answers?