Breaking : merger AFS and IWB

6 Sep 2012

Voor de gezelligheidWholesale brokers AFS and IWB agreed to merge their operations. The firm will continue under the flag of AFS. The brokers from IWB will join their former competitors in the exchange building. No idea on the details on the deal, but expect to read it in the papers tomorrow.

Back in the good old days when every clown could make a fortune trading options, we had a dozen of brokers. Every serious market maker had their own brokerage unit as well as every bank. Aespen, Amstel, Binck, ProBrokerage, InterOptions, RIA, Sem, Kempen : the golden age.

The main job of these brokers is getting market makers, banks, hedge funds and institutions to trade large blocks of options with each other. And receive some commission. The spreads were large, so a lot of room for negotiating better deals.

The spreads have collapsed in the screen and the order flow from the banks has dried up. The large brokers in London play a slightly different game and will survive, but the Dutch brokers have a though time. This merger of AFS and IWB looks like a big cost cutting measure.

The Dutch brokerage landscape is getting empty. Hope the combined new entity will manage to survive – the brokers enjoy a good reputation in the market and AFS employs a fine research desk. Still, every merger goes with the risk of cutting some staff. This one is no different. The number of brokers employed by the firm could very well be just a few too many.

65 Responses to Breaking : merger AFS and IWB

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anonymous

September 7th, 2012 at 1:07 am

‘The large brokers in London play a slightly different game’

what is that?

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anonymous

September 7th, 2012 at 1:08 am

‘the brokers enjoy a good reputation in the market’

Jack you are way too generous each time you describe a set of brokers having a good reputation in the market. what is your opinion regarding blood sucking leeches?

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anonymous

September 7th, 2012 at 7:35 am

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anonymous

September 7th, 2012 at 9:23 am

well consolidate is the only option left for houses like AFS and IWB. it’s not a merger of equals though, this is takeover. don’t understand why they don’t call it that.

also http://perssupport.nl/apssite/persberichten/full/2012/09/07/Aandelen+Derivaten+fusie+AFS+IWB

“De AFS IWB combinatie wordt de grootste aandelenderivaten broker van het Europese vasteland” haha what a joke. i can name plenty inter dealer equity derivatives brokers who are bigger than them.

and by the way, just my personal opinion, it’s just a matter of time before this new company will be looking for some other company to “merge” with. local brokers with local petty mentalities will be gone in a couple of years time.

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anonymous

September 7th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

…and frustration and begrudge of many in the industry are still here, apparantly.

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 11:43 am

I’ve got a question and i don’t find the answer on internet.

Stocks are transferable between exhanges. So i can buy a stock on
Euronext Amsterdam and sell it later on Bats or Turquoise.

But is this also possible for option contracts? Can i buy an option
on Liffe and sell it (to close) on Eurex or TOM?

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

http://fd.nl/Print/krant/Pagina/Ondernemen/714036-1209/effectenhuizen-afs-en-iwb-samen_bron_fd_krant

Houses and Securities AFS IWB together

Wolzak, M.
Friday 07 September 2012, 0:00

Martine Wolzak

Amsterdam

The Amsterdam securities and interest broker AFS Group today announced that it coincides with the equity derivatives broker IWB. This puts the consolidation among securities brokers in the Netherlands.

AFS arranges for securities transactions include banks, asset managers and pension funds. It specializes in the bond market, fixed income, structured products and equity derivatives. With stock trading itself AFS last year stopped after passing through three (former) employees were taken over by the now bankrupt property company Phanos.

After a loss in 2011, says AFS in the first months of 2012 have made ​​profits again. By partnering with IWB continuing, growing from fifty to seventy employees.

Director Hein Siemerink AFS expects that by combining the profitability of the Group further increased. IWRM is significantly greater in the equity derivatives trading than AFS and focuses on end-clients such as asset managers. AFS is mainly active in trade between banks, the interdealer broker market. Exactly there are volumes in recent years under additional pressure.

Siemerink emphasized that this step for neither party was a necessity. The transaction, which still must be approved by regulators, takes place with no exchange. The owners of IWRM get a minority stake in AFS.

consolidation

In quiet market

Low volumes in the markets and a penchant for scaling lead to consolidation among brokers. In July it was announced that Kepler and Cheuvreux, both active in Amsterdam, together. The Amsterdam Effects Office has stopped and RBS has been done on Dutch equities broker at ABN Amro.

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

Generally speaking, no. The LIFFE and Eurex option contracts are the same instruments from a practical point of view, but technically they are different (the ISINs are different). However, the people behind TOM will allow you to close whatever option positions you opened on TOM on another exchange. (The resulting open/short positions become their problem.) After all, your opening TOM order could have been executed on a number of exchanges and they can and will not force you to close your position on Eurex, for example, just because they decided to route your first order there. Without such fungibility, TOM never would have gotten off the ground.

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

http://perssupport.nl/apssite/persberichten/full/2012/09/07/Aandelen+Derivaten+fusie+AFS+IWB

Equity Derivatives merger AFS IWRM

Friday, 09.07.2012 9:42
This is an original message of AFS Group
AFS Group BV, Amsterdam securities and interest broker announces, subject to approval by the relevant regulators, the merger between its equity derivatives and equity derivatives department mediator IWB BV This brings together two leading market players with vast experience and a large client base in the dynamic option world.

All parties involved are very excited about the added value that this combination will bring to its customers. The mutual customers will benefit from such multi asset capabilities of AFS Group and the Swiss office of IWRM.

The volumes in equity derivatives are the last year under pressure. Nevertheless knew the AFS derivatives desk in the inter-dealer broker marketplace. IWRM in recent years, through its offices in Amsterdam and Zurich, successfully managed to shift its focus of this market to more mediation for end clients such as asset managers and private banks.

The AFS IWRM combination is the largest equity derivatives broker of the European continent. There will be more products to be offered as the main index of Europe, Euro Stoxx 50. Customers overlap between AFS and IWRM is because of the different focus small. This will total customer palette significantly expand the liquidity and best price will benefit.

After restructuring in recent years AFS and IWRM separately already profitable. The profitability of the combination will increase significantly by cost and purchasing advantages. The capital and the solvency of AFS by the merger strengthened.

AFS Group as a whole is greater than IWB. The IWRM shareholders minority shareholder in AFS Group. IWB will move to the office of AFS on the old shares and options floor Beursplein 5. The name AFS remains. IWB Director Soesbergen, the new derivatives team will manage, IWB Director Of Beurden joins the board of AFS Group. Mr. Siemerink and Mr Coppejans continue the management forms of AFS Group.

“In a challenging market, this is a fusion of strength. Neither party was forced to merge but both parties see the tremendous synergies which negotiations went smoothly” says CEO Siemerink. “I respect the way IWRM in the crisis has further been able to develop and am very pleased with the merger.”

Directors of Beurden and Soesbergen: “We saw the increasing demand of our customers for other products. Single asset if the broker you choose to invest in the creation of new departments or you to join a larger multi-asset company. AFS was independent party as a logical choice. Challenges regulatory and IT field in a larger whole better absorb “.
About the ambitions of AFS, the general manager of AFS Mr. Siemerink the following report: “AFS has the ambition to become a pan-European broker round. Despite or perhaps because of the difficult market conditions, there is scope for other departments in the coming period checked further expand. This merger is a very good step. The fixed income department in the coming period will be further developed.

AFS Group with offices in Amsterdam and London is one of the larger independent brokers in securities, currencies, interest rates and derived products for professional players in Europe. AFS is a full service broker to include banks, corporates, family offices, (semi) government, market makers, pension funds and insurers.

IWB mediates from offices in Amsterdam and Zurich primarily in equity derivatives. IWRM has in recent years successfully shift its focus from the inter-dealer broker market to mediation for end customers such as asset managers, funds and execution platforms of banks.

Press Information
For more information please contact Hein Siemerink,
phone no + 31 6 21546488

Address AFS Group
Beursplein 5
1012 JW
Amsterdam

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

‘it’s not a merger of equals though, this is takeover. don’t understand why they don’t call it that.’

Grow up mate, its a world of euphemism out there.

‘local brokers with local petty mentalities will be gone in a couple of years time’

how do you mean local petty mentalities? What about the VOC mentalitiet?

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

‘But is this also possible for option contracts? Can i buy an option
on Liffe and sell it (to close) on Eurex or TOM?’

well, why don’t you read the fine print on your option contract or better still, call up your exchange or the broker, they would be better able to tell you about the shit they are selling to you.

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

‘After all, your opening TOM order could have been executed on a number of exchanges and they can and will not force you to close your position on Eurex, for example, just because they decided to route your first order there. Without such fungibility, TOM never would have gotten off the ground.’

what’s the point anyways, your execution quality from one venue to another venue would be largely the same, the latency arbitrage would be done by the market maker, not by you, so just go sell back the shit from wherever you brought it.

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

“Generally speaking, no. The LIFFE and Eurex option contracts are the same instruments from a practical point of view, but technically they are different (the ISINs are different). However, the people behind TOM will allow you to close whatever option positions you opened on TOM on another exchange. (The resulting open/short positions become their problem.) After all, your opening TOM order could have been executed on a number of exchanges and they can and will not force you to close your position on Eurex, for example, just because they decided to route your first order there. Without such fungibility, TOM never would have gotten off the ground.”

I think indeed it must be possible, but in this article i read:
‘In tegenstelling tot aandelen zijn derivaten niet vrij overdraagbaar tussen beurzen’.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:6ideCl1MRdMJ:www.lodewijkpetram.nl/library/nrc_5-5-2011_p33.pdf+beursrivaliteit+is+al+vier+eeuwen+oud&hl=nl&gl=be&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShixyl4jbIK2DvF3QiOzZ-s-hPT6N6h7BXLU1IOnk-zeAwP1QpmOSa7EXXLqyoKwg3t4Bwmp7_Vr-swdsmQsBH0f6bO2UgGt4f7RIXWdWPA4v155L3HxJjwgBT4p_c1ddzXsNv8&sig=AHIEtbRpbOI8RhLMaudXd_sBZuvuVI-Cwg

But i will ask my broker.

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

Oh, i have just found the answer. It wasn’t possible for TOM to
trade Euronext Liffe options, but now they are a “member of Liffe, so
now they can. Problem solved. :)

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anonymous

September 8th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

Unlike shares are not freely transferable between derivatives exchanges

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anonymous

September 9th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

Derivatives (options/futures) are not fungible (TOM imitates fungibility). At one point fungibility will be mandatory (EU rules) but it might take a while before it happens.

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anonymous

September 10th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

The edn of the fight betwoon TOM and Euronext.
See first message:
http://twitter.com/TheOrderMachine

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anonymous

September 10th, 2012 at 5:10 pm

“end” and “between” of course.
Sorry. :)

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anonymous

September 10th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

it’s in dutch and text can’t be copy-pasted, what does it say?

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anonymous

September 11th, 2012 at 3:27 am

“I have a huge windmill”

“I also have a huge windmill”

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anonymous

September 12th, 2012 at 1:19 am

i also got big huge windmill, together we can make a new mini holland.

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anonymous

September 14th, 2012 at 10:30 am

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anonymous

September 14th, 2012 at 10:45 am

Ha ha Nijenburgh. Die gasten stevenden recht op een faillissement af. De daghandelaren waren overigens niet welkom bij Virtu die blijven doorgaan onder de naam Global Exchange Trading Services en schrijven daar weer een keurige nul.

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anonymous

September 14th, 2012 at 10:45 am

guys, stop posting dutch content, this is an English speaking forum!

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anonymous

September 14th, 2012 at 11:07 am

heren, hou op met het posten van Nederlandse teksten, hier wordt Engels gesproken!

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anonymous

September 14th, 2012 at 11:26 am

After having lost quite some market share to Optiver, Flow Traders will now lose additional market share to virt-u. How is the sale of Flow coming along? Summit wants out.

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 8:28 am

http://fd.nl/beleggen/453151-1209/handelshuis-nyenburgh-overgenomen

Trading Nyenburgh acquired

Joris Kooiman
Friday 14 September 2012, 09:35
Update: Friday 14 September 2012, 15:13

The Amsterdam trading house Nyenburgh, competitor Flow Traders, is taken over by Virtu Financial from the U.S..

This disappears Nyenburgh of Beursplein 5. “With a heavy heart,” says Christiaan Scholtes, head of business development at Nyenburgh from now from London for Virtu works.

Flow Traders

That Virtu, both in the U.S. and Europe is very active in trading stocks, commodities and derivatives, for Nyenburgh choose is striking. In June, ie already known that the very much larger and also Amsterdam competitor Nyenburgh Flow Traders for sale.

Both trading companies specializing in market making – continuously dispensing rate that investors act – in listed trackers (ETFs). Virtu would acquire Nyenburgh want to benefit from the growth in the market etf’s.

Moreover, Brussels regulations affecting trade in derivatives, which are still largely outside the market place (over-the-counter), the fairs have to move. That would be the role of market makers can increase.

Skepticism

But there is also skepticism. Because with the economy in crisis for years running the trading volumes on the stock market at a fast pace. Moreover, the trade has become increasingly a struggle for the best IT systems. Only the company with the most advanced equipment is fast enough.

For smaller trading houses, such Nyenburgh, it is therefore more difficult to keep upright. A further consolidation in the market is therefore expected.

“Our acquisition also has to do with the low volumes and the strong emphasis on IT infrastructure,” says Scholtes. “We are pleased that we are now merged into one big party.”

How much money is involved with the deal was not disclosed.

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 8:30 am

‘guys, stop posting dutch content, this is an English speaking forum!’

take it easy, some people are not good with english, dutch comments are better than nothing.

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 8:31 am

Ha ha Nijenburgh. Those guys were headed right to a bankruptcy. The day traders were also not welcomed by Virtu which continue under the name Global Exchange Trading Services and write another neat zero.

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 8:46 am

‘heren, hou op met het posten van Nederlandse teksten, hier wordt Engels gesproken!’

take it easy, sommige mensen niet goed met engels, nederlands commentaar is beter dan niets.

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 8:47 am

‘The day traders were also not welcomed by Virtu’

Duh.

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 8:48 am

‘use WEBB’s superior infrastructure and trading expertise’

why does this moron keep taking a piss at WEBB?

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

What you’re saying is that WEBB do have expertise? Who’s the moron?

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anonymous

September 15th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

okay you haven’t lived in england, so you don’t understand colloquial context, what it means is WEBB clearly has no expertise, but for some reason one guy keeps saying they are the Goldman Sachs/Citadels of the world, trying hard to be so clever and sarcastic.

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anonymous

September 16th, 2012 at 4:29 pm

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anonymous

September 16th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

nyenburgh

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anonymous

September 17th, 2012 at 12:41 am

http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2012-09-14/virtu-buys-dutch-market-maker?mod=sectionheadlines-home-TT

Virtu buys Dutch market maker

The Wall Street Journal
14 Sep 2012

Virtu Financial said it bought a Dutch market-making business, bolstering the US trading firm’s presence in a European exchange-traded-funds market that has emerged as a profitable battleground for high-speed traders.

Virtu, one of the most-active traders of stocks, commodities and other securities in the US and Europe, acquired the market-making division from Amsterdam-based Nyenburgh Holdings the companies said. They declined to disclose the value of the transaction.

Market makers stand ready to buy and sell securities at quoted prices, helping ensure that trades are executed smoothly. Market makers take a sliver of profit from each transaction, and the flow of data can help them profit in their own trades.

With the Nyenburgh deal, New York-based Virtu gains relationships with ETF issuers as well as buyers and sellers of the instruments, which include pensions and hedge funds, said Chris Concannon, a Virtu partner and chief compliance officer of its broker-dealer operation. Virtu has traded European ETFs since 2009.

Virtu expects growth in the ETF market will help fuel trading in the assets that underlie them, from gold and palladium to agricultural-commodity futures. The firm, through its Dublin-based office, became a registered market maker on the London Stock Exchange in August, and is registering on major European exchanges, said Douglas Cifu, Virtu’s president and chief operating officer.

The deal comes amid mounting competition and regulation in the European market for ETFs, or investment funds that track the performance of indexes and other baskets of individual securities. Unlike in the US, the majority of ETF trading in Europe occurs in over-the-counter transactions. But new rules are pushing more ETF trading onto exchanges, providing opportunities for high-speed trading firms like Virtu to grab a bigger share of the market.

“For us, market share is a proxy for performance,” Cifu said in an interview.

The growth in high-speed trading in ETFs has prompted some regulators and market participants to question whether their presence has brought greater volatility to the market, hurting investors who can’t move as nimbly. Virtu and other firms say their presence improves the ease of ETF trading for a wide range of investors.

Virtu’s acquisition of Nyenburgh’s ETF business effectively marks the end of that firm, which is spinning off a separate high-speed-trading business under the name Global Exchange Trading Services. Barclays Bank advised Nyenburgh on its deal with Virtu.

Chicago high-speed trading firm Getco also is pushing deeper into trading European ETFs, people familiar with the matter said. A Getco spokeswoman declined to comment on details of its European plans.

Virtu, which was founded in 2008 by former New York Mercantile Exchange Chairman Vincent Viola, explored other potential deals this year involving European ETF-trading firms. Virtu executives met with Nyenburgh in April, around the time the Dutch firm was exploring other possible partnerships, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Bart Lijnse, who runs Nyenburgh’s ETF-trading business, said he is one of about 10 people with the firm moving to London to join Virtu.

–write to Jenny Strasbourg, jenny.strasbourg@wsj.com

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anonymous

September 17th, 2012 at 12:42 am

Virtu buys Dutch market maker

The Wall Street Journal
14 Sep 2012

Virtu Financial said it bought a Dutch market-making business, bolstering the US trading firm’s presence in a European exchange-traded-funds market that has emerged as a profitable battleground for high-speed traders.

Virtu, one of the most-active traders of stocks, commodities and other securities in the US and Europe, acquired the market-making division from Amsterdam-based Nyenburgh Holdings the companies said. They declined to disclose the value of the transaction.

Market makers stand ready to buy and sell securities at quoted prices, helping ensure that trades are executed smoothly. Market makers take a sliver of profit from each transaction, and the flow of data can help them profit in their own trades.

With the Nyenburgh deal, New York-based Virtu gains relationships with ETF issuers as well as buyers and sellers of the instruments, which include pensions and hedge funds, said Chris Concannon, a Virtu partner and chief compliance officer of its broker-dealer operation. Virtu has traded European ETFs since 2009.

Virtu expects growth in the ETF market will help fuel trading in the assets that underlie them, from gold and palladium to agricultural-commodity futures. The firm, through its Dublin-based office, became a registered market maker on the London Stock Exchange in August, and is registering on major European exchanges, said Douglas Cifu, Virtu’s president and chief operating officer.

The deal comes amid mounting competition and regulation in the European market for ETFs, or investment funds that track the performance of indexes and other baskets of individual securities. Unlike in the US, the majority of ETF trading in Europe occurs in over-the-counter transactions. But new rules are pushing more ETF trading onto exchanges, providing opportunities for high-speed trading firms like Virtu to grab a bigger share of the market.

“For us, market share is a proxy for performance,” Cifu said in an interview.

The growth in high-speed trading in ETFs has prompted some regulators and market participants to question whether their presence has brought greater volatility to the market, hurting investors who can’t move as nimbly. Virtu and other firms say their presence improves the ease of ETF trading for a wide range of investors.

Virtu’s acquisition of Nyenburgh’s ETF business effectively marks the end of that firm, which is spinning off a separate high-speed-trading business under the name Global Exchange Trading Services. Barclays Bank advised Nyenburgh on its deal with Virtu.

Chicago high-speed trading firm Getco also is pushing deeper into trading European ETFs, people familiar with the matter said. A Getco spokeswoman declined to comment on details of its European plans.

Virtu, which was founded in 2008 by former New York Mercantile Exchange Chairman Vincent Viola, explored other potential deals this year involving European ETF-trading firms. Virtu executives met with Nyenburgh in April, around the time the Dutch firm was exploring other possible partnerships, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Bart Lijnse, who runs Nyenburgh’s ETF-trading business, said he is one of about 10 people with the firm moving to London to join Virtu.

–write to Jenny Strasbourg, jenny.strasbourg@wsj.com

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anonymous

September 17th, 2012 at 11:46 am

shocking news! Jack’s absence is clear now, he stopped trading! I noticed his office was dark for a long time and his screens were always off, and it is confirmed, he is out of the options trading business! Wonder what he will do to this site?

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anonymous

September 17th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

sell space for ads, e.g. recruiting ads for IMC

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anonymous

September 17th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

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anonymous

September 18th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

‘he is out of the options trading business’

lol, that didn’t take very long, http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2012/09/a-bronze-medal.html#comment-13519

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anonymous

September 18th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

‘you must be high, do you think IMC is so dumb to put a recruiting ad on this blog after these three stories’

no he ain’t high, he was being sarcastic.

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anonymous

September 18th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

‘you must be high, do you think IMC is so dumb to put a recruiting ad on this blog after these three stories’

ha ha, one story per office, when is Sydney’s turn?

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anonymous

September 18th, 2012 at 8:53 pm

oye maate, ge’mme a faasters, will yaa!

the sad part is that aussie people down under don’t even drink fosters, apparently its a bloody aussie international branding scam.

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anonymous

September 19th, 2012 at 8:20 am

sorry to hijack this topics, but on a somewhat related note to the IMC recruiting ad remark:

which NL-based firms should a I as a college graduate consider for applying when interested in a trading or related job? and which should I avoid?

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Hendrixx

September 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am

Apply at ABR Financial. They pay top dollar and the atmosphere between co-workers is very good. Colleagues even go the extra (thousands of) mile(s) to Russia to put in a good word for you in case there was an unfortunate trading glitch. Highly recommended.

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anonymous

September 19th, 2012 at 8:43 pm

as long as you don’t end up in IMC you should be fine,

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anonymous

September 19th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

what’s the problem with IMC?

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anonymous

September 19th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 5:26 am

pitch high, deliver low, then keep every cent you made for them.

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 8:53 am

Flow Traders are fighting hard to protect their market share but they cannot really keep up with Optiver and the newcomer virtu. Flow´s market share is dwindeling.

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 10:06 am

Thanks for all the info!

what about the smaller ones? All options, caerus, etc?

and what about Tibra?

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

All Options had big troubles in the past, probably not the best place to start, Tibra is ok, they are former IMC/Optiver people

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

What about socgen? I heard they have decent marketshare on LiffeNL

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Jerome

September 20th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

Not so easy anymore to run a large position at SocGen. Pass.

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

I heard as well that Tower research Capital started to be quite agressive in Europe on option markets. Somebody confirm?

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anonymous

September 20th, 2012 at 5:22 pm

I think they are more in equities

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anonymous

September 21st, 2012 at 1:00 am

Plenty of negative stories out of Tibra. High turnover.

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anonymous

September 24th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

Could you elaborate more on the difference between dutch and english brokers in the options business, do you mean english ones act more as advisers?

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anonymous

September 24th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

they all bloody act as advisers, peddling their shit, cock sucking leeches.

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anonymous

September 25th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

hahahaha, loser
by the sound of it you’re a trader making no money

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anonymous

September 26th, 2012 at 7:53 am

is that worse off than whoring yourself around town for some leftover brokerage being stuffed up your ahole?

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Marco

December 11th, 2012 at 10:01 am

bumping an old topic….

can someone give me an answer to the following?

‘The large brokers in London play a slightly different game’
what is that?

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anonymous

December 11th, 2012 at 8:13 pm

that’s bunch of made up bs, the game is the same, but the size and amounts of money is manyfold, you expected these brokers to come up with something more genius?

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