All Options in Charity

All Options? Do they still exist?

The word is “and” not “en”. Say it again

I have juicy information on the chicago office disfunction. the two clowns running chicago – not rob en wiet – are so pathetic it is sad.

How do I send the juicy information to you.

I have juicy information about Optiver’s free pizza… they are almost as hot as their recruiters!

Optiver’s recruiters? really, where’s saneke these days?

they are not really clowns, the comment brings out the frustration of a low level Chicago employee who doesn’t understand the politics and the dynamics of the decision taking at the top, this is then followed by an equally frustrated comment from another low level employee in Zug office who is living in perpetual fear of being laid off by the MD there

These two low level employees are the real clowns if you take a step back

why are there so many frustrated/low level/low life employees at IMC?

who are the top clowns at IMC worldwide?

I imagine that the low-level persons should get out. Many firms in Chicago like to see IMC n a resume. IT dones’t mean an offer, but usually means an interview.

Because only the incompetents rise to the top at IMC. Being fired at IMC is really a badge of honour, it means you were too smart. The rest of Chicago reconizes that.

‘B. van Toor and A. van Toor’

is there only one clown at top ? what’s his full name?

‘You kidding me? Why would you think IMC is a positive on a resume?’

they are looking for prior relevant experience and it’s hard to get a top tier experience to leave their original firm, so IMC is good enough?

‘ah ah, that’s funny, but be honest, it is never good to be fired, not even at IMC’

precisely, make a quite entry of the that door on your left, either to another firm or for some well deserved break?

Hartog is a spineless monkey muppet. He needs 2 balls but may not have either. Even for a Dutch he is a cheap bastard and has pissed off a lot of people already

what’s actually the task of Wim Den Hartog? What is he doing all the day?

‘pissed off a lot of people already’

how did hartog manage that?

‘he is the management, keeping an eye on all you rebellion muppets is task enough for the whole day’

is this also his main competence? In what is he good?

he knows about trading, long industry experience

‘is this also his main competence? In what is he good?’

what do you want him to do?

He was just about to be fired at Goldman so at least he managed to get another job!

‘wim knows nothing about trading – what are you talking about. Hes just worked in prime brokerage’

yes, its well known he in not an ex-trader, you don’t need to be one to be the office manager, isn’t head of trading at IMC Chicago an ex-trader, why do you need office manager to be ex-trader too?

‘And he is as thick as shit!’

just because he is not an ex-trader and doesn’t understand trading strategies doesn’t mean he is stupid about life, he is your god damm office manager, he must know few essential things about life that you bone-heads are yet to figure out

what exactly is the big secret about algo trading that is yet to be figured out? you find some bloody correlations, signals, backtesting blah blah and keep calibrating to the changing market conditions

Knew Hartog from London days. He worked part time and all he did was kiss client ass. He was thick as shit and completely clueless about the business. He could sell hedge funds Goldmans balance sheet and that was all. He was insecure and a BS artist. Also he was really bitter about Goldman and spared no moment to talk shit about others behind their back. IMC people better get used to a untrustworthy clown who will just do whatever Rob tells him. He will not be able to think independently. My money would be that he will mess up the US regulations and will then get fired. I think he will have to get his FINRA licenses. Money is also that he will not take them and will keep pushing out the date. He will never pass it.

More to come……..

‘He worked part time and all he did was kiss client ass’

he was paid on part time work hours and his job was to kiss client arses? you haven’t seen investment banks hiring tall swedish blonde, the oldest cliche in the book, to handle the largest investment manager in japan as the most prized after client?

‘He was thick as shit and completely clueless about the business’

he wasn’t hired as quant or trader, he did what he could, not everybody is a smart arse.

‘He could sell hedge funds Goldmans balance sheet and that was all’

That’s what most sell side sales do, that’s why brokers don’t hire them for their ‘selling’ skills, they are of course at times unaware of even that little technicality.

‘He was insecure and a BS artist’

he recognized his lack of talent and found a work around, no credit for him?

‘Also he was really bitter about Goldman’

understandably, jealousy and resentment are most basic and expected emotions in this situation, what’s your point?

‘and spared no moment to talk shit about others behind their back’

all these banks, traders are cut throat, if you can’t handle little back stabbing like that, then you might as well throw the towel in now

‘IMC people better get used to a untrustworthy clown who will just do whatever Rob tells him’

IMC people are well aware of this fact over last several months since the news broke out, what’s new?

‘He will not be able to think independently. My money would be that he will mess up the US regulations and will then get fired’

The number of times you hear that, for most people in the industry, ‘he is a moron and will soon get fired’

‘I think he will have to get his FINRA licenses. Money is also that he will not take them and will keep pushing out the date. He will never pass it.’

those are of course really difficult exams which doesn’t even require an IQ of 50

‘More to come……..’

you are going to talk about his lack of abilities in bedroom too?

happy new year from Hong Kong!

happy new year from Euroland!

who is Scott?

Probably a leftover from his GS days.

So what if he does not like to buy clothes or take a bath or spend money. He is Dutch after all.

here we go again, with another loser, this time using sarcasm to hide his fear of being laid off and being found to be easily replaceable by bright fresh young grads

is it true that IMC constantly replaces senior people with cheap young grads? Even for the young grads this is not so great as they would be replaced soon, are they aware of that?

‘is it true that IMC constantly replaces senior people with cheap young grads?’

all the companies do that, if you are replaceable, don’t expect the employee union to come save your ass

‘it is also true that the best companies don’t do that (e.g. DEShaw, renaissance, etc.) as it makes no sense to spread trading know-how’

it is quite possible deshaw and renaissance have some real ip, imc is market making house, train up a monkey and he can join the bid and offer, no need to maintain old hands or their great trading secrets

‘Every headhunter in London can confirm you that basically all traders/researchers at IMC Zug submitted their CV’

they are not useful for IMC no more, what’s wrong with them looking for a new job? IMC is not a bloody japanese company that is going to give you life time employment, if you can’t make your self useful for your firm, there’s the door on your left, have a good life

are you saying that also Hartog is a yes man?

‘@9:03. The door can be in the front, back, right too’

yes, you can pack up your bags and pick any of them, your point?

‘It is hard to make one useful in a firm like IMC where Rob already have a set stubborn view of the world. The partnership takes after him and keep their jobs and compensation secure.’

no it isn’t hard, you can make yourself useful by saying yes. Most firms of this nature have similar sort of format, take for eg citadel, brevan, paulson, bluecrest, renaissance, appaloosa, winton, the founder runs in the way with his view, his way or highway, how hard is that?

‘This means hiring recent grads and firing experienced’

That’s because they do market making, you can hire a monkey and train him to join the bloody bid-offer, how hard is it for you to understand this simple little fact?

‘This is the model at IMC like it or not’

It’s not for anyone to like, it’s a for-profit company and does what it needs to maximize profits, again, it’s not a god damn japanese car manufacturer aiming to give you stable 40 year employment with high bonuses on top

‘IMC does not value most workers plain en simple’

no company does that, they can’t afford to, if you are slacking off or over paid or replaceable by cheaper grad/offshore, you’ll be shown the door on your left, or right or back or front, take a pick

‘Den Hartog is just another Rob hand puppet who is there to enforce Rob’s stubborn view of the world’

this is common strategy used by people at top, they all want to maintain the absolute control and need people like hartog who can be entrusted with the job

‘Osi is there to watch over Hartog to make sure he does not stray from Robs script’

who is osi, why is hartog going to stray from the script?

‘Pitiful if you ask me’

that’s real life, and how old are you?

So you’re saying that the owners can do as they wish and oppress a mass of replaceable employees ? Damn ! Karl Marx was so dead right if class warfare even applies to market making firms

‘IMC does not value most workers plain en simple’

Maybe the problem is those traders that all expect to make half a million euros bonuses after two years of trading. IMC values most workers, just not at the price that the traders think they should be valued at… If people were still willing to work for 50-100k after a few years, like their fellow uni graduates who work in normal jobs, there wouldn’t be much reason for IMC to get rid of them.

Have you ever been in a Dutch supermarket? You’ll have a hard time finding anyone over 20 there. People don’t work at Albert Heijn because they’re great performers, but because they’re cheap. Bars and restaurants the same. Or shop assistants. Or Foxconn.
I think you need to redefine ‘normal’.

Why are these discussions always focused around IMC… to be honest, the Optiver culture is exactly the same.

i’ll rephrase that… because i know some of you geniuses will say you try and ‘arb’ the market. …. .

market making is stupid. industry is dead. looking forward to employing a lot of you as a junior sales guy, professing how your knowledge of the market will make any difference to a client.

bunch of muppets.

‘and yes, i am an ex market maker….’

and what are you now?

Optiver made a lot of people rich. IMC made Rob rich. That is the difference between the two firms. That is why IMC is ridiculed on these blogs and in the industry. Optiver is Barca. IMC is the North Korean team. The two are not even close with regards to management.

love how the genius traders assume brokers just make money from voice broking orders…. ever heard of equity raisings? corporate advice fees? keep grinding out that tick or two boys…